Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 01:53:12 -0700 (PDT) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v097.n036 -------------- 001 - Reggie Dwork Subject: No digest next week Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 23:27:44 -0700 Jeff and I will be out of the country from 5/20 - 5/28 for a much needed vacation. We won't be taking the computer with us. So the bbd will take a week vacation also. You will not get a digest during the weekend of 5/22. Please send in your notes though so the next one that comes out during the weekend of 5/30 will have lots of recipes/tips/questions/answers. Have a great week while we are doing the same. Reggie & Jeff --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n036.2 --------------- From: bryce upshaw Subject: Re: Digest bread-bakers.v097.n035 Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 09:10:02 -0700 Can someone tell me if you can convert bread machine recipes to traditional hand-made recipes? If so, hou do yuo do it? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n036.3 --------------- From: "Bill Hatcher" Subject: Sourdough Starter Source Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 11:20:06 -0400 The following link is a source for sourdough starters. They seem a bit pricey to me, but who knows. http://www.cyberhighway.net/~sourdo Regards. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n036.4 --------------- From: "Bill Hatcher" Subject: Re: Bread Machine yeast Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 10:39:53 -0400 Casey - I use ~~only~~ regular Red Star yeast purchased at Sam's Discount Club in 2-pound packages (in the $2.50 to $3.25 range for the 2 lb. pkg.) and since I learned that it is imperative to keep the yeast and salt separate prior to mixing I have not had a single failure due to poor or erratic rising. I use the same yeast for ABM bread or making it by hand. I keep a small jar in the refrigerator for ready use and the remainder in the freezer until I need to replenish my jar. I also do not bother bringing ingredients to room temp; my Regal (and I suspect most other brands) are thermostatically controlled to provided the correct temperature not only for baking but also for the rising cycles. Regards. Bill Hatcher bhatcher@gc.net Southampton County, Virginia, USA ---- >--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n035.6 --------------- > >From: casey@visionet.org (Casey Pritchard) >Subject: Bread Machine yeast >Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 10:44:52 -0400 > >Hi there! > >I have recently begun making bread with a bread machine, and I've noticed >that some recipes specifically call for "Bread Machine yeast" (which I >bought a jar of) but others either say "active dry" or do not specify. >Someone told me I should *always* use "Bread Machine yeast," irregardless >of what the recipe says. Does anyone agree or disgree with that? > >-Casey > > --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n036.5 --------------- From: MHarris269@aol.com Subject: Re: Lessons learned Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 08:56:35 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-05-11 03:11:06 EDT, you write: > I guess that explains why Donna G. hasn't come up with a recipe for cabbage > bread, right? I made some veggie soup once. . . ONCE. . . that contained a > _whole_ head of cabbage. After consuming a goodly portion, and > experiencing the fulsome effects of said cabbage, I ended up feeding the > remainder to the dog, then regretted it all evening! > Donna G. may not have had a cabbage bread recipe, but Sandra W. does, and it's very tasty. Vita Bread 1 lb. 1.5 lb. 2/3 cup water 1 cup 1" wedge cabbage 1-1/2 " wedge 4" piece carrot 6" piece 2 cups whole wheat flour 3 cups 4 tsp. wheat gluten 1-1/2 tbsp. 1 tsp. yeast 1-1/2 tsp. 1/2 tsp. sea salt 3/4 tsp. 1 Tbsp. lecithin granules or vegetable oil 1-1/2 Tbsp. Put the water, cabbage, and carrot in a blender and process for 1 minute or until vegetables are completely pulverized. Then put this mixture and the remaining ingredients in the bread machine's pan and turn the machine on. Soft and moist, this bread is also super-nutritious. Sugars naturally present in the carrots and cabbage feed the yeast, eliminating the need for added sugar. Per Serving: Calories: 79 Sodium: 92 mg Cholesterol: 0 mg Fat: 0.9 g Protein: 3.2 g Fiber: 2.7 g from "Smart Bread Machine Recipes" by Sandra L. Woodruff MHarris269@aol.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n036.6 --------------- From: jaclyn@itexas.net (Jack Dickson) Subject: English Muffin Recipe Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 05:48:26 -0500 Claudia, this is not exactly a traditional English Muffin but maybe a starting point. * Exported from Key Home Gourmet * Bran English Muffin Recipe By : Bon Appetit Serving Size : 12 Preparation Time :0:45 Categories : Breads Breakfast Buns, Muffins, Scones Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 package dry yeast 1/2 cup warm water 1/2 cup milk -- scalded 1/2 cup boiling water 1 tablespoon honey 2 cups flour, whole-grain wheat 1 cup all-purpose flour -- unbleached 1/2 cup bran flakes -- unprocessed 1 teaspoon salt 1/2 teaspoon baking soda yellow cornmeal Dissolve yeast in warm water and set aside to proof. Mix scalded milk and boiling water in large bowl. Add honey and let stand until lukewarm. Stir in yeast and whole wheat flour. Cover with damp cloth and let stand in warm draft-free area until doubled. Stir sponge down. Combine all purpose flour, bran, salt and soda and blend into sponge. Turn out onto floured surface and knead well (dough should be workable but sticky). Return dough to bowl and let rise again 25-30 minutes. Grease 12 muffin rings (3 to 3 1/2-inch round). Punch dough down and roll or pat out to 1/2-inch thickness. Cut into circles and transfer with rings to flat surface, cover and let rise until doubled, about 1 hour. Dust both sides with cornmeal. Toast on both sides on ungreased griddle until browned, about 6-8 minutes per side, removing ring after first side is browned. Let muffins cool on rack. Separate into halves with fork. Wrap well and refrigerate. Toast under broiler or in toaster oven just before serving. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTES : Seven ounce tuna cans with both ends removed mak --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n036.7 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: great site Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:39:08 -0700 Well, I buy a lot of books from Jessica's Biscuit... a food cookbook mail order company. They now have a web site...if anyone is interested the address is: www.jessicas.com Have a great time if you decide to visit it. Reggie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n036.8 --------------- From: DaStanfill@aol.com Subject: Re: yeast for bread machine Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:53:30 -0400 (EDT) I buy regular active dry yeast in bulk and keep it in the freezer (I keep a babyfood jar full of it in the refrigerator for using). I have been useing it in my bread machine for a little over a year and and have never had a problem. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n036.9 --------------- From: LoisO43779@aol.com Subject: Chicago Rye Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 11:16:31 -0400 (EDT) Does anyone know how the wonderful bakerys in Chicago make rye bread? I grew up in Chicago and have never had any rye since I moved away that was as good. It is light (no molasses), very tender, crusty and smells wonderful. It comes with or without caraway. I have tried many recipes over the 40 years since I left Chicago and have never been able to replicate that rye bread. I have even brought loaves back to the west coast in my suitcase, when I visited my family in Chicago. If anyone knows the secret, I'd love to know how the bakers make that rye! Lois in Shelton, WA --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n036.10 --------------- From: witchy@sullivan.fidnet.com Subject: Sourdough Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 17:52:44 +0000 :Hello All, : :I wanted to let everyone know that I have finally gotten 3 sourdough :starters going and all are very vigorous. I have a whole wheat, rye, :and a regular starter. I made my first loaves of bread this weekend :and they taste wonderful. It took me about 12 hours from start to :finish for my sourdough loaves. : :I am now going to work on being able to dry the starter so I can send :some to people via "snail mail" when they ask. I hyaven't gotten this :perfected yet, so please give me some time on this before you ask for :any starter to be sent to you. : :Elaine --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n036.11 --------------- From: Joyce L Owen Subject: Re: Bread Machine yeast Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 17:13:16 +0100 Casey asked about bread machine yeast: >Someone told me I should *always* use "Bread Machine yeast," irregardless >of what the recipe says. Does anyone agree or disgree with that? Casey, I disagree. I have been using bulk yeast for the three years that I have had my breadmaker. Never had a loaf fail yet. Joyce - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Joyce L. Owen jowen@oregon.uoregon.edu Eugene OR Visit the Website of the Fanconi Anemia Research Fund, Inc. http://www.rio.com/~fafund --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n036.12 --------------- From: EHarbison@aol.com Subject: sugar and salt Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 17:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Interesting post, Mr. Hosler, and one that I agree with for the most part. However, in my bread machine (and we are talking solely about bread machine breads, right?), I've never had a successful loaf without salt. The machine has a timer that is inalterable, at least in my case. Any time I've tried to go salt-free, the loaf has risen and fallen -- collapsed, really, with no hope of rebounding within an uninterrupted cycle -- creating an impossibly dense loaf. RE: sugar, I should have worded my post differently so it said the loaf doesn't rise "as quickly" rather than "as much". I did NOT say the loaf will not rise -- obviously it will. Every breadmaker knows -- or should -- that starch = sugar. Again, though, omitting sugar from a bread machine recipe can be a problem sometimes with timed cycles that don't allow a longer rise, if necessary. If anyone has found a way around the problem of timed cycles in cases like these, I'd love to know what it is. I've often wished my machine would let me skip right to the bake cycle when I want to, but it won't. -Elizabeth Harbison --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n036.13 --------------- From: "Christopher J. Flann" Subject: Certain Breads Don't Rise-Help Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 17:42:24 -0600 I am new to this list, and to bread baking. And I could use some help and advice. So far, I am making bread with a machine, the Regal Kitchen Pro. Many of the recipes in the accompanying cookbook have turned out fine. I have even experimented and produced a really good cracked wheat loaf; however, certain recipes never turn out. The two problem recipes are for sourdough and cinnamon raisin bread. For the sourdough, I made the starter as per instructions in a glass dish, put in with the rest of the ingredients, including yeast, and produced a cannonball. As far as I can tell the loaf never rose at all. It is the same story with the Cinnamon Raisin. The loaf increased in size about 10% in the rise cycle. It seems to me that some component of each recipe must be inhibiting the yeast. The same yeast works fine in other breads. In the sourdough recipe it must be something in the starter because every other ingredient (honey, milk, flour etc.) works fine in other loaves. In the Cinnamon Raisin, I suspect the Cinnamon(very aromatic, from Penzeys). Again, all the other ingredients present no problems in other recipes. What to do? I want to make both these types of breads, and I want to do it in my bread machine. Is this an impossible quest? Please help. Christopher J. Flann cjflann@imt.net Montana. The Last Best Place. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n036.14 --------------- From: Susan Chapin Subject: Question on Proper Rising Times Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 11:01:20 -0400 I played for the first time with my Zo's Home Made capability (lets you manually move from cycle to cycle so you can define your own timings) and I could use some help on the theory behind selecting knead and rise times and otherwise coaxing yeast to eat and thrive. The problem: I can't use wheat flour, so I use other flours including 1/6 gluten (1/2 cup out of 3 cups flour total). I get quite good bread, but it only rises to within an inch or so of the top of the pan, so I thought I would try to extend the rise times. I tried Knead 10, Rise 15, Knead 20, Rise 60, Punchdown, Rise 80, Bake 60. I noticed that after about an hour of the second rise the bread simply stopped rising. To be certain, I left the second rise for two hours, and observed that there was no further change. So obviously the yeast had died. The resulting bread was fine, no different from what I was used to using the White/Whole Grain cycle. All of this is with the SAF yeast, 1 3/4 tsp. The questions: What is going on? Why did the yeast die -- apparently this is happening with the preprogrammed cycles as well, with just about every mixture of flours I try. What can I do about it? Note that most of my breads use 1 3/4 tsp SAF yeast, 2 1/2 cups various non-wheat flours (well, usually I include some Kamut flour which is a wheat, technically), 1/2 cup gluten, 1 1/2 - 2 TB oil, 1 1/2 - 2 TB honey or barley malt syrup, 1 1/8 tsp salt, and about 1/2 - 1 tsp liquid lecithin. Any pointers welcome, and thanks in advance for them - susan --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n036.15 --------------- From: Jay Hosler Subject: salt and sugar Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 13:19:36 -0700 (PDT) With all respect to Elizabeth Harbison and her book full of good recipes, her post contains some mythology that should be corrected. > The only problem could happen if: > * you had no salt, the loaf would rise out of control > * you had no natural sugar (sugar, honey, molasses, whatever) the yeast > wouldn't be activated so the dough wouldn't rise much ... [snip] I make salt-free bread in and out of bread machines. I also make sugar-free bread. There are several ways to control the rate of fermentation and rise: ==> Yeast: the more yeast, the faster the rise. ==> Firmness/water content: firmer bread rises more slowly. Moister bread rises faster. ==> Salt: slows down rise. ==> Sweeteners: speed up rise. If you put in sweeteners, it gives the yeast a jet-assist. But yeast is perfectly happy to feed on flour alone; yeast converts the starch in flour to sugar. If sugar, honey, and the like were needed to "activate" the yeast, french bread (which by law, in France, contains only water, flour, salt, and yeast) would be impossible. ==> Temperature: bread rises faster when it's warmer. This doesn't apply much to bread machines, which don't usually have programmable temperature settings. If you want low-salt or salt-free bread, use less salt -- or none at all. If your bread mushrooms and collapses, it's rising too fast. Reduce yeast, sugar, or water. If you want bread that's less sweet, leave out some or all of the sugar/honey/molasses. If the bread doesn't rise fast enough, add yeast, or add water. Or reduce salt. Like Elizabeth Harbison, I don't measure carefully. But I make an exception when I'm using a machine. Making machine bread with low salt, or no salt, requires that you measure accurately. Declare yourself a scientist: experiment with different combinations, and keep good records. Jay Hosler --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n036.16 --------------- From: Jay Hosler Subject: Re: sugar and salt Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 22:33:18 -0700 (PDT) > Interesting post, Mr. Hosler, and one that I agree with for the most part. > > However, in my bread machine (and we are talking solely about bread machine > breads, right?), I've never had a successful loaf without salt. The machine > has a timer that is inalterable, at least in my case. Any time I've tried to > go salt-free, the loaf has risen and fallen -- collapsed, really, with no > hope of rebounding within an uninterrupted cycle -- creating an impossibly > dense loaf. > > RE: sugar, I should have worded my post differently so it said the loaf > doesn't rise "as quickly" rather than "as much". I did NOT say the loaf will > not rise -- obviously it will. Every breadmaker knows -- or should -- that > starch = sugar. Again, though, omitting sugar from a bread machine recipe can > be a problem sometimes with timed cycles that don't allow a longer rise, if > necessary. > > If anyone has found a way around the problem of timed cycles in cases like > these, I'd love to know what it is. I've often wished my machine would let > me skip right to the bake cycle when I want to, but it won't. > > -Elizabeth Harbison I found that in order to make salt-free bread in my WB machine I had to be precise about the measurement of water and particularly yeast, whose small volume means that small inconsistencies make a bigger percentage difference. I played with each recipe, adjusting the yeast by 1/4 tsp at a time. Eventually I found a way to make salt-free breads of all types - pumpernickel, light rye, French bread, raisin-oatmeal whole wheat, spelt bread - everything I tried. But if you use too little yeast you get a doorstop, and too much causes collapse. The margin of error isn't big, but it's not so small it's scary; You need no measurer finer than 1/4 tsp. I got some bad loaves during the adjustment period for each new recipe. But once I had the amounts right they worked every time. The ones that were most persnickety about the amount of yeast where the no-sugar loaves. (I've since discovered that if I put a little bit of salt in my bread, more of it is eaten by my wife than if I make only salt-free bread. We've compromised - I now use half a tsp per loaf of "Lite salt", which is half sodium chloride and half potassium chloride -- 500 mg sodium/loaf. This allows me to resume measuring by eye.) I don't know of any solution to the timing problem except a generation of bread machines that don't yet exist. I have solved some of the timing problems - as above - by controlling water, yeast, salt, and sugar. But of course the machine remains rigidly attached to its narrow rules. Why is this true? Perhaps manufacturers fear giving up the simplicity of current machines. How many people would buy a machine that cost significantly more but offered completely flexible programming and control? If each reader of this list would tell the manufacturer of his or her machine that they want one with complete programmability, it would increase the probability that such a machine would exist in the future. And why not a machine that detects the volume of dough, with a photocell or even a small paddle the dough lifts as it rises - to tell when to start the next phase of processing? Thanks for your response to my note. Jay Hosler --------------- END bread-bakers.v097.n036 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2000 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved