Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:17:20 -0700 (PDT) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v097.n052 -------------- 001 - Bill King - Robin--herb bread 003 - Linda Michaluk Subject: Re: Spices Date: Sat, 9 Aug 97 17:37:12 -0500 (CDT) >I really would like to find a place that would offer a better price for spices. Any help would be appreciated. I love to use and learn about spices. A few of the sources that I use are: Spices etc. PO Box 5266 Charlottesville, VA 22905-5266 www.spicesetc.com The New Orleans School of cooking 620 Decatur Street New Orleans LA 70130 The Baker's Catalogue PO Box 876 Norwich, Vermont 05055-0876 1-800-827-6836 The most wonderful spice store that I ever entered was in Houston Texas several years ago. It was an East Indian store with amazing prices and very fresh spices. The ones that I bought have kept in glass jars for years! I do not know if they would ship by mail or not, or even if they are still in business, but it is a great experience just to go there & smell the aromas. Perhaps someone from Houston could update us?? The Jay Store 6688 Southwest Freeway Houston, TX 77074 These are some of my favorites. I hope that others will list their's so we might get a good collection of sources. Thanks to anyone who will take time to write. S King --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.2 --------------- From: carini Subject: Robin--herb bread Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 14:37:25 +0200 Robin, I am very behind in my digest reading, but I noticed that you need a recipe for Italian Herb Bread. I have a recipe similar to this in my breadmaker cookbook. If you have not received a copy from someone else, let me know, and I'll send it to you. I tried to e-mail you personally, but I couldn't get it to work. Sincerely, Patti --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.3 --------------- From: Linda Michaluk Subject: bread machines Date: Sun, 10 Aug 97 09:56:17 -0500 -- [ From: Linda Michaluk * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- I am considering purchasing a bread machine. The ones that I see most often for sale in my area are by Black and Decker. Right now both the 1.5 and 2 lb machines are on sale. Can anyone help me out with experiences that they have had with Black and Decker bread machines? Please feel free to post directly to me so that I can have the info asap. tmichaluk@cyberstore.ca Thanks Linda --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.4 --------------- From: "Ellen C." Subject: Cardamon Date: Sun, 10 Aug 97 09:22:52 EDT Bonnie asked about where to buy cardamon less expensively: Check your local Health Food Store. Many of them sell spices in bulk, and they are soooo much less expensive than buying the pre-bottled ones in the grocery. By buying from bulk bins, you can purchase much smaller quantities and keep replenishing them with fresh spices. Also, I typically by my spices whole, not ground, and then grind them as needed. This preserves the flavor. If you can't find a local HFS that sells spices in bulk, then you might try Penzeys, Ltd. They are a specialty spice mail-order company (414-679-7207). They offer 5 types of Cardamon, ranging from $3 to $16 per 4 oz. I hope this helps. -- Ellen C. ellen@brakes.elekta.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.5 --------------- From: "Natalie Frankel" Subject: Re: Where to Buy Spices? Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:48:09 -0500 (CDT) For Bonnie Pollack looking for where to buy spices after feeling like she overpayed dearly for cardamom. I highly recommend Penzey's, Ltd., a wonderful spice house located in the Milwaukee, WI area where I live. They have a beautiful catalogue that describes all of the spices and everything is very reasonable. I shop at the store often and the prices in the store are exactly the same as in the catalogue. To order a catalogue or place an order, call 414-679-7207 or send a fax to 414-679-7878. Hours are 8:30 am-5pm M-F and 9am - 3pm Saturdays (Central Time). Too bad they don't have an 800# - if you want me to call for you and have them send a catalogue, just e-mail me your name and address and I'll call in or fax the request. I may not get to it for a few days, but I'll do it for you. (The catalogue is free.) By the way, there are several kinds of cardamom, all different prices, so your purchase, Bonnie, may not have been so outrageous after all. However, when you figure out what the spices are per ounce when buying them in the store, it is rather shocking. Hope this helps! Natalie in Milwaukee enjoying summer and finding it hard to believe we really do suffer through winter! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.6 --------------- From: barbi10@juno.com (BARBARA S BUCKANTZ) Subject: Paddle stuck to pan Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 21:26:03 EDT > Problem is the paddle is very difficult to remove for >cleaning. Is this unique to my machine or has someone else Griff, I've had the same problem. Oiling the paddle and shaft sometimes helps, but not all the time. Take the pan, place some hot water in it, and let it sit for just a couple of minutes. The paddle will lift right off. Happy Baking, Barb --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.7 --------------- From: Karen Colosimo Subject: Re: Digest bread-bakers.v097.n051 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:26:08 -0500 (CDT) Hello, Just read the most recent bread-bakers list where someone made a reference to Consumers Reports being on-line. Would you please share that address with the list on please feel free to e-mail me privately at kcolosim@admin.aurora.edu. Also, I missed the receipe of the Apple Bread. Would someone please put that back on line. Thanks so much. Karen Colosimo kcolosim@admin.aurora.edu --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.8 --------------- From: Susan Chapin Subject: Zo kneading -- proper speed? Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 11:23:20 -0400 I am wondering whether my Zo is straining too hard to knead my bread. Thanks to extensive help from Irwin, I now am making (sort of wheat free) breads that rise properly. The basic recipe is 2 cups Kamut flour 1/2 cup gluten 3/4 cup amaranth flour 1 1/2 TB whey or dry milk 9 oz. water 2 TB oil or butter 2 TB honey 1 1/8 tsp salt 1 1/2 tsp SAF yeast When I transfer the bread to the finnish pan the texture is springy, stretchy, soft but not sticky -- in other words perfect. The resulting bread rises just far enough that I can raise the bail without mashing or breaking the bread, and the texture is soft, fine, a bit chewy, and fully acceptable. The crust is a bit softer than I like, but that's another story -- basically, this is a good result. The question: during the kneading process the paddle doesn't move quickly and smoothly, but is obviously straining very hard. It goes uh - - uh - - uh uh uh -- uh etc. Should it? Is this bad for the machine? I just replaced the belt, so it isn't an old belt problem. Thanks for your input, - susan --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.9 --------------- From: "Ellen C." Subject: Zo Paddle Problem Date: Mon, 11 Aug 97 13:07:04 EDT >Griff asked about how to easily remove his sticking Zo paddle: To "unlock" the paddle for easy removal, hold the "screw" on the underneath side of the breadpan while you twist the paddle. There are two little "arms" that stick out from this screw/bolt. When you hold these and gently twist the paddle right and left, it will be released (or unlocked) and will slide right out. Conversely, you can twist the little arms and hold the paddle still. You don't need to always do this, but when the paddle doesn't slide out easily, then this technique will cause it to release. I hope I've described this in a way that makes sense. Let me know if this helps! -- Ellen C. ellen@brakes.elekta.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.10 --------------- From: "Ellen C." Subject: Re: Rival Mixers Date: Mon, 11 Aug 97 13:17:43 EDT * "Michael C. Zusman" wrote: * :Looking at purchasing the Rival/Kenmore 7 qt. mixer w/650 watt motor. The * :model number escapes me, but it is advertised in the Chef's Catalog. Seem * :to have outgrown my Kitchen Aid 5 qt., especially with heavier doughs or * :larger batches. Three months ago, I studied the mixers available and decided upon the 5 qt Rival, largely for the features you described. In talking with helpful people from this list, and with the owner of "Appliances Online", I learned that both the 5 and 7 qt Rivals perform very well. As you know, the 7 qt has a larger motor to support its greater capacity. The only other difference I know of between the two machines is the mechanism to lift the arm. The large machine uses a button, the smaller, a "lever" switch. (I don't think this is significant.) You might want to check out the Appliances Online page before making your purchase: http://www.appliances.com/ I was very pleased with their service, and they offer the Rivals at the best prices I found. ($339 for the 7 qt model!) They also carry every single attachment, and there are many available for the Rivals (and they are less expensive than the KA). The owner of company uses the 7 quart Rival, and he loves the machine. (They also sell KAs at very competitive prices.) You may email the owner with any questions. I found him to be very helpful. The standard disclaimer applies: I am in no way related to Appliances Online; I am simply a satisfied customer. BTW, I purchased both the stainless steel and the hard plastic bowls, and I love them both. The plastic works very well and is much less expensive than the stainless. It shows no signs of scratches nor discoloration. One caution: I found the directions in the Rival manual for mixing yeast doughs to be inadequate. So, for those who are new at kneading in a mixer, I suggest you look for guidance in some of the excellent bread books that are available. (My current favorite is the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book.) -- Ellen C. ellen@brakes.elekta.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.11 --------------- From: "Ellen C." Subject: PS on the Rival Mixer Date: Mon, 11 Aug 97 13:34:28 EDT For those of you who don't know, the "Rival Select" mixer we are talking about, is actually a Kenwood mixer, from England. (It is a much higher end appliance than typically sold by Rival.) The Rival company simply puts their logo on the machine and markets it in the US for Kenwood. So if you are looking for information and reputation, don't limit your search to just Rival.I understand that the Kenwood mixer enjoys a strong following in England. -- Ellen C. ellen@brakes.elekta.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.12 --------------- From: Eidasit@aol.com Subject: Request - Malt Loaf Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 13:39:38 -0400 (EDT) I've been on this list for quite a while now, and have learnt much about yeasts and bread making in general. I enjoy the digests greatly. I've been looking for a Malt loaf recipe for years now, similar to those that I used to buy in England. They're usually small (1 pound), sweet, dark, sticky, and delicious! Can anyone help me with a recipe? Sadie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.13 --------------- From: "Gordon" Subject: answers to questions Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:57:27 -0500 Bonnie wrote asking for a mail order spice company. I have found two mail order sources that I buy odds and ends from that I can not buy in the store. Both offer good service and fair prices. Neither had Cardomin in the last catalog but I would call and see if they have it and get on their mailing list. They both have excellent and informative catalogs. I love reading them both. King Arthur has all kinds of pans, flours, spices, and generally things you use when baking.. Penzeys is strictly spices. If you like Greek salad dressing they have a great base for the dressing. I love it. King Arthur Flour 800-827-6836 Penzeys ltd 414-574-0278 PO Box 933 Muskego, Wi Tia wrote saying her paddle stuck in her pan. Tia I guess as a batchlor I can write this. Why are you worried? I never wash my bread pan. I just shake out the loaf of bread and put the pan back in the ABM. Even when making dough I just wipe the pan out with a dry cloth to get the dried dough off the sides of the pan and then proceed with the next loaf. Pizza stores and professional bakers never wash their pans. It ruins the seasoning. there really is no reason to wash the pan. Its not going to get anything on it that will hurt your family and even if it did it would get killed when the bread baked. Every few months I get a small paint brush and clean out the whole abm sweeping the dust out. Thats it. And, as of this date I haven't died of food poisoning. Pam Drake wrote about having problems with her Bread Machine. Pam do you have your ABM on a surge protector? You mentioned that you had a problem with the electricity in your house then the ABM would not work. Leads me to think the computer burnt out when the lights went out. All Microwaves and ABM's should be on surge protectors. The computers in them are sensitive to sudden surges of electricity. You can purchase individual ones for a low price at almost any hardware store. Gordon Acapulco --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.14 --------------- From: Sally Eisenberg Subject: Different Bread Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 15:15:31 -0700 Hi All, I picked this from a web site and gave it a try yesterday and it is very good. Hope you like it too. It's an easy bread to make. Enjoy. Sally E. * Exported from MasterCook * Sweet Muenster Bread Recipe By : Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : New Text Import Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 2 packages dry yeast 1/4 cup warm water 1 cup warm milk 1 1/2 tablespoons sugar 1 1/2 teaspoons salt 1/2 cup melted butter 3 cups flour -- (3 to 4) FILLING 2 pounds Munster Cheese -- grated 1 egg 3 tablespoons butter -- melted Sprinkle yeast over the warm water, stirring with a fork until dissolved. Set aside. In a mixing bowl, combine the milk, sugar, salt, and melted butter. Blend well and add the yeast mixture. Beat in 2 cups of flour until mixture is smooth. Add sufficient flour to make a soft, workable dough. Turn out on a lightly floured board and knead until smooth and satiny, about 8 minutes. Round into a ball and place in a warm, greased bowl, turning to coat the top. Allow to double in bulk, about 1 hour. Punch the dough down and allow a second rising, about 30 minutes. Meanwhile prepare the filling. Spray a 10" cake pan with PAM. Punch the dough down, turn out on a floured board, cover, and let rest 10 to 15 minutes. Roll into a large circle 24 to 26" in diameter. If dough resists, cover and let rest again. Fold circle of dough in half and lay across half of the cake pan. Unfold the dough. Carefully lift and press dough to fit into the pan leaving a skirt of dough draped over the rim. Mound the cheese on the dough forming it higher in the center. Pick up the skirt of dough and begin to pleat in loose folds around the mounded cheese, lifting and rotating the pan as you progress. Gather the ends on top together and twist into a knob. Take both hands and encircle the bottom of the knob and give a firm twist. If any dough is torn, pinch together firmly. Set loaf aside 15 minutes. Give the knob on more twist. Bake in a preheated 375F oven 1 hour, or until golden brown. If top becomes too brown, cover with foil the last 15 minutes. Let bread cool in cake tin on a wire rack. Do not attempt to slice until the cheese has congealed. Reheat if you wish to serve warm.This bread stems from middle Europe. It can be frozen, served warm, room temperature, or chilled. Do not substitute any other cheese - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.15 --------------- From: Debbie Hrabinski Subject: buying spices Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 20:14:21 -0400 I don't know if it's cheaper than what u paid, but Penzey's sells spices. I've bot some vanilla beans and some cinnamon and I wasn't dissapointed. So it may not be cheaper, but probably better quality. I know they are on the web somewhere. debbie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.16 --------------- From: Debbie Hrabinski Subject: Zoji paddle Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 20:14:16 -0400 >dust. Replaced it with a Zoji which, except for one little problem, I'm >very happy with. Problem is the paddle is very difficult to remove for >cleaning. Is this unique to my machine or has someone else experienced I have the same problem! I just try to remove it after I've let the barrel soak w/ water. Usually comes out after that. debbie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.17 --------------- From: "Angie Klidzejs" Subject: Latvian Dark Bread -- Recipe Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:49:24 I just returned from vacation and was delighted to find Reggie's request for a Latvian Dark Bread. The recipe below is for one of my all-time favorite breads, but it involves a two-day process and is a lot of work. This bread is a "sweet & sour" type of sourdough rye. It's a heavy but very hearty bread -- good with soups, meats & cheeses, cucumber & tomato slices, or just plain butter. It's a peasant bread which was originally mixed up in a special wooden container called an "abra," using a wooden spoon devoted solely to mixing this type of dough, and also lots of elbow grease for kneading. My father once said that the mixing and kneading were often delegated to children, I suppose to keep them busy. I've run across a few published recipes for this type of bread, but the recipes were very imprecise and my results were disastrous. I finally consulted a couple of very generous older Latvian women about their recipes. My result was to borrow ideas from both of them and then to adjust for modern technology using a Kitchen Aid mixer to do the nasty heavy stuff. The peasant version of this bread was baked in brick ovens, but my regular electric oven works quite well. I make this bread infrequently, but always in large batches (6 loaves at a time, using 3 Kitchen Aid bowls); the recipe below is for a single batch (2 loaves). The bread freezes well if well wrapped in plastic bags; frozen loaves of bread can be thawed and then warmed up in the oven before serving. LATVIAN SOURDOUGH RYE BREAD ("SALDSKAABA MAIZE") 3-1/2 cups + 1 tablespoon apple cider; 2 tablespoons caraway seeds; 5-1/2 (or more) cups whole grain (coarse) rye flour (i.e., Hodgson Mill); 1 cup sourdough starter (1:1 ratio water:bread flour); 1 tablespoon yeast; 1 teaspoon salt; 2-1/2 cups bread flour; vegetable oil spray (Pam, etc.); OPTIONAL: 1 egg; rye flakes Heat 3 cups apple cider and 2 tablespoons caraway seeds to boiling; pour over 3 cups of coarse rye flour and stir. Let mixture cool. Add 1 cup active sourdough starter and mix well. The mixture will resemble heavy porridge as the rye flour absorbs the apple cider. Sprinkle 1/2 cup coarse rye flour over the mixture but do not stir at this point. Cover your bowl with a dish towel, and then wrap the covered bowl with a beach towel or blanket. Put wrapped bowl in a warm spot (next to a heat register is good) and allow the mixture to ferment for up to 24 hours (less time if you think it will be too sour). Dissolve 1 tablespoon yeast in 1/2 cup warm (105-115 degrees Farenheit) apple cider. Let the yeast mixture bubble and then add it to the sourdough mixture. Gradually add 1 teaspoon salt, 2-1/2 cups bread flour, and 2 cups coarse rye flour. Knead with your heavy-duty electric mixer. If the dough seems too wet, add more rye flour (wet dough will result in a soggy baked brick). This type of bread is tricky to make, as the dough is always very sticky from the rye; it takes some trial and error to get a feel for the dough. If the dough is too wet, it becomes slack after a while; the correct consistency of dough remains rather firm. Spray a Formica countertop or a marble pastry board with vegetable cooking spray. Use a small plastic pan scraper or something like that to scrape your dough out of the bowl and onto your work surface. Using a bench knife/dough scraper, divide the dough into two equal chunks. Wet your hands with water and keep a bowl of water handy for additional dipping. Form the dough into two loaves on the oiled surface, using just your wet hands; do not add flour at this point. Place the loaves into oiled bread pans (8-1/2" x 4-1/2"). Cover with a dish towel and let rise in a warm place. Believe it or not, this very heavy dough WILL rise. OPTIONAL (not a traditional method): Brush on glaze made with 1 egg that's been mixed with 1 tablespoon of apple cider; sprinkle with rye flakes (obtainable from a food co-op). Bake for 15 minutes at 400 degrees Farenheit; then turn heat down to 350 degrees Farenheit and continue to bake for an additional hour. Don't underbake. Remove loaves from pans and allow to cool on a rack. POSTSCRIPT: When measuring flour, I do not fluff and scoop into separate measuring cups; rather I just use my measuring cup to do the scooping and then level it off with a spatula. My resulting "cups" are probably somewhat on the dense side as a result of this. If anyone is interested in a "true sourdough" Latvian rye bread (using only sourdough starter but no additional yeast), I can post a recipe for it later on. The recipe differs from the one here in several ways: by including water and sugar, rather than apple cider; it uses a different (coffee flavored) glaze; it's a one-day process, rather than two-day like the recipe posted here; it uses a different type of sourdough starter. Anyway, good luck and enjoy the bread. IT IS WORTH THE WORK! Angie Klidzejs --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.18 --------------- From: "Angie Klidzejs" Subject: Latvian Dark Bread -- Additional Resource Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:53:09 Regarding Reggie's request for Latvian Dark Bread recipes, I remember seeing a recipe for "Riga Rye Bread" in the King Arthur Flour Bakers Catalogue a couple of years ago. The recipe appeared to have a mistake in the flour:water ratio so I never made it. However, one of my friends who fiddled with the proportions said that the resulting bread was quite tasty. I seem to have misplaced my copy of the recipe. Maybe one of the King Arthur folks would be kind enough to check their archives and post the recipe here for Reggie ... ??? Angie Klidzejs --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.19 --------------- From: Tom Strantz Subject: Zoji clutch slipping? (Reply) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 01:21:33 -0400 This reply is for William Buchman: I've had a Zoji for less than a year now and I have noticed the same thing that you have: a squeaky noise from time to time when it rotates clockwise. I've only noticed it on very thick dough. A few months back, someone on Compuserve wrote that they had to replace a broken belt in their Zoji. They were able to get a belt from the company and replace it themself without sending it for repairs. I have never opened my machine up, but I suspect that there is no clutch, just a belt that squeaks when it slips on the pulley. Too much slipping and the belt can wear and finally break. Anyone else have this problem? Tom --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v097.n052.20 --------------- From: Tom Strantz Subject: Zoji Problem (Reply) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 01:21:27 -0400 This is an answer for Griff who has a Zoji problem. I also had trouble removing the paddle from my Zoji. Then I noticed that when it was clean and dry the paddle actually fit very loosly! Further investigation revealed that during the mixing and baking the dough works its way into the small gap between the paddle and the shaft: then it BAKES the paddle to the shaft, using the bread dough as cement! After I remove the bread I put a few inches of hot water in the pan and let it soak. Sometimes I have to hold the bottom of the shaft with one hand and wiggle the paddle with the other hand. It always comes off easily with method. By the way, did you know that you can purchase a Zoji pan without a paddle? After the dough has mixed you transfer it to a pan without a shaft or paddle and place it back into the machine to bake. There will be no hole in the bottom of the bread when it is finished. Contact Mr. Irwin H. Franzel who supplies these pans from a company called Delta Rehabilitation. He also has a toll free number: (800) 641-9093. Tom --------------- END bread-bakers.v097.n052 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2000 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved