Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:26:11 -0800 (PST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v100.n008 -------------- 001 - TheGuamTarheels@webtv.net - Amoroso Rolls 002 - "L. Hyson" Subject: Bialys for Glenn Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:58:23 -0500 Glenn, check out www.betterbaking.com which is Marcy Goldman's Web Site. She has bialys as well as NY bagels and Montreal bagels - have fun - I too miss NYC and Orwasher's breads - --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.3 --------------- From: Judy Ruzich Subject: Vienna Bread Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:33:53 -0500 I have been looking for a Vienna bread recipe. The bread is crusty on the outside and moist and dense on the inside. Does anyone know of such a recipe? It can be for a bread machine or by hand. I would prefer by machine, but will take one that is handmade. I've been looking for this recipe for 30+ years and have just about given up hope. Can you offer me any help? TIA, Judy --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.4 --------------- From: Joni Repasch Subject: bread-bakers.v100.n006.12 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:28:28 -0500 >Subject: Sally Lunn Recipes for Gypsy >Re: V100.N004 I may have made a mistake in typing the recipe I recently submitted to V100.n006: Please see clarification below. Sally Lunn ( 2) The fat content should be: 1/2 cup shortening and 1/2 cup butter (mixed and melted but NOT BUBBLY ) SOURCE: Mrs Charles Lambeth, from: Old North State Cook Book, Charlotte, NC, and contributed to The Southern Cook Book, 1951, by Marion Brown. Thanks to everyone who submitted other Sally Lunn recipes. The more the better. Joni Repasch --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.5 --------------- From: "heller, dulcey" Subject: "slow yeast" Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:28:58 -0600 Hi! Slow yeast is just my feeble attempt to describe regular yeast - coarser granules that are slower acting than the finer granules of "instant" or "rapid" or "bread machine" yeast. I think I remember reading somewhere that the temperature of the drying of the yeast is different - higher temperature and more organisms killed in regular yeast? My mom baked bread regularly in the 70's and going back to baking in the 90's, learned that yeast has changed; it's been bred to be faster and stronger. Even the regular yeast is faster than it used to be (same source of wheat she grinds for the flour, etc. - this was the only difference she could determine). At the food co-op I use, the bulk yeast in the cooler IS coarser than the regular yeast in the jars at the grocery store (Fleishmann's, Red Star). I use this yeast for my whole-grain breads, and the instant for my quick, sandwich breads. Dulcey --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.6 --------------- From: jillmyers1@juno.com Subject: Okay, it isn't wood Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 15:51:40 -0800 I have material from a handout regarding that Y2K frenzy and the stocking up of items in case of an emergency. I thought there may be others out there that may benefit from this so here goes; Charcoal briquettes burn at a 40F temperature each. Since this is the case, you would want to burn 10 of them to maintain a 400F temperature which lasts up to 45 to 50 minutes. I am dying to try this out on my barbecue, but I am holding out for warmer weather. Not so much because of the coolness but it is dark out real early. I really would like to see what I'm 'burning'! ; D I also read that baking tiles or baking stones are a necessity. I have to do a pizza first- so come on over! ; D Happy baking! Jill ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.7 --------------- From: Julia Farmer Subject: Re: Bread and Cheese Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:44:45 -0500 Barbara wrote: >Also have any of you bread makers tried making cheese at home? This is >something else I would like to try. I know there is a place on the East >Coast that offers Home Cheesemaking classes but I haven't been able to get >out there to take one and don't know of any place else where such a class >is offered. Barbara, the Hometown Creamery Revival offers classes from time to time for both home cheesemakers and those interested in commercial artisan cheesemaking. These are listed (along with other courses) on their webpage at . There is also an email list dedicated to making cheese in the artisan way you might find interesting. Info about it can be found at the webpage listed below... Julia Farmer >*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*> Cheesemakers-L, the list for Artisan Cheesemakers http://members.xoom.com/cheesemaker/Cheesemakers-L.htm >*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*>*<*> --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.8 --------------- From: Ruth Warren Subject: hmmm Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 16:35:12 -0600 I just pulled a bread from machine that didn't rise properly. Made same one yesterday and it turned out fine. Only difference is I used Fleishmann yeast. Had a good deal this summer for it and got a few strips, put them directly in the freezer. So they should have been good. I use older than that Red Star that I buy in 2# bag from a local supply house that sells to the public. My usual procedure is to store it in the freezer in a ziplock bag when opened, putting a small amount in a jar and keeping that in the fridge for daily use. I've NEVER had any problems with Red Star, that's why I don't buy the Fleishmann at Sam's Club. Today I was just lazy, didn't feel like opening up a new bag and pouring, etc. Also thought it would be a good idea to use up the Fleishmann. I had done that with Red Star strips that I got years ago from a now defunct Bread Machine newsletter. Speaking of "Bread Machine Magic Newsletter" , has anyone heard from Ada Lai, who edited it? I know she was planning on moving from Half-Moon Bay in CA several years ago, never got her addy and haven't heard from her since she discontinued the newsletter. I'm curious as to how she and her family are doing and is she still baking breads by machine. Thanks. ruth ************************************************************ Visit me on the web at http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/8785 ************************************************************ --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.9 --------------- From: jillmyers1@juno.com Subject: Exploding bread trick Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 16:05:52 -0800 Subject: My Two Cents > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:00:39 -0500 > One problem I've had. . .sometimes my loaves come out of the oven sort of > exploded on one side. There is a big seam or stretched place one side. > The bread tastes fine, no one complains, but I'd love to know how to get my > loaves to come out prettier. > Thanks! > Shanda -------Do you use a steam pan in the bottom of the oven at all? I've used one and it not only helps the baking but the rising is faster too. We had 'proofers' even though they were nothing more than steam cabinets for raising baker's racks full of thawed out french loaves and challah and the like. I use the same principal here at home in my oven. I put an aluminum roasting pan- you know the foil kind aka: cheap, in the bottom and pour hot water in it and raise the bread in the oven with the steam engulfing the loaves so they have a smooth expansion and crusty exterior. Raise them about an inch or so shorter than what the finished loaf is expected to rise to and then bake it. I remove it from the oven to attain the 400F and return them once it is heated to finish off. No need to mist loaves while baking and if I want my sourdough browned I paint with either egg white wash or olive oil. The sourdough will begin to taste at its peak sourness and full-bodied best after a minimum of 24 hours. That is the hard part! ; D Jill 'Abby Normal' ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.10 --------------- From: Jack Elliott Subject: Two Questions. Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:06:26 -0500 Question 1: Recently I made my own Tavolini type bread board (see the KA Bakers Catalog). My board is sanded smooth and flat but is unfinished. The dough does not handle as well as it would handle on a commercial board or table. It surely handled better on such surfaces I have had the opportunity to use. Does anyone know what the finish used on those commercial bread shaping surfaces is? I wish to improve the dough handling on my board with a proper finish. Question 2: Our local newspaper recently printed 2 recipes for bread baked daily in one of our very popular restaurants. The recipes specified 6 quarts of water and "about 9 pounds of flour". That is more weight of water than flour and should, in my mind, make a useless slurry. The restaurant insists the recipe as printed was correct. It seems to me 19 to 20 pounds of flour might make a useful dough. Somewhere on the Internet I recently saw an article that discussed the proper amount of water. I do not recall where I saw this and do not recall with certainty the ratio. I think the weight of water was around 70% of the weight of flour. Can someone cast some light on this? I have a video on bread making made by a professional baker. The recipe he used to make dough by hand called for 1 1/2 quarts water and 5 pounds flour. That is 60% water by weight. This mix made what appeared to be a nice workable dough. Is this a good ratio to use in general? Should the ratio change for other than white flour? I realize the moisture content of the flour must be considered. This would modify the amount of water actually required. 60% seems like a good place to start. In the same video bread made using a 60 quart Hobart machine used 62% water weight, per the recipe, for the required amount of water. This is not far from 60%, so 60 to 62% may well be the answer to my question. I would appreciate comments from anyone who cares to make them. TIA to anyone who can help. Jack Elliott --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.11 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Bialys Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 13:03:58 -0800 Here is one I haven't tried ... but I am able to locate bialys here in San Jose, CA. We get them from Noah's Bagels (owned by Einstein Bros)... they are very, very good!! * Exported from MasterCook * Bialys Recipe By : Secrets of a Jewish Baker, George Greenstein Serving Size : 18 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread-Bakers Mailing List Breads Hand Made Low Fat Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- BIALYS 2 Cups warm water 3 Packages active dry yeast 4 Teaspoons sugar 3 Teaspoons salt 6 Cups bread flour -- (6 to 6 1/2) Flour for dusting (preferably rye flour -- For Added Flavor) Oil -- for greasing bowl Topping: 3 Tablespoons minced onion 2 Teaspoons poppy seeds -- (optional) 1 Teaspoon vegetable oil 1 Pinch salt Combine topping ingredients and set aside. In a large bowl sprinkle yeast over the warm water to soften; stir to dissolve. Add the sugar, 6 cups of flour, and salt. Mix thoroughly until dough forms up and comes away from the sides of the bowl. Turn out the dough onto a floured work surface and knead, adding small amounts of flour as needed, for 10 to 12 minutes. Shape the dough into a ball; place in a large oiled bowl and turn to coat. Cover and allow to rise 30 minutes. Press out all of the air with your fingers and allow to rise until doubled in size (20-30 minutes). Punch down the dough, divide into thirds, roll out under your palms into ropes, and cut each rope in 6 equal pieces. Roll into balls. Cover and allow the dough to rest for 10 minutes. Roll out each ball into a 3 1/2 inch circle. If the dough becomes too stiff or shrinks back, allow it to rest and go on to the next piece. Evenly space the circles on 2 floured or cornmeal dusted baking pans. Cover with flour rubbed cloths and allow to rise until puffy. Make an indentation from the center outward, leaving a 1-inch rim. A shot glass with a 1" bottom also works well. Press with a circular motion. Dribble bit of the reserved topping into the hole. Dust lightly with reserved flour. Cover with cloths and allow to proof until puffed up. Bake without steam in a preheated 450F oven for 15-20 minutes. Make 18 bialys. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.12 --------------- From: John Levin Subject: BIALYS Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:49:48 -0500 At 10:49 AM 01/22/2000 -0800, "Glenn in Denver" wrote in B-B v.100 n.006.8: >Hi All. > >This question is basically addressed to New Yorkers but if you know the >answer anyway, jump on in. > >There is a recipe that I've been having an unusual amount of difficulty >finding. They are called BIALYS (pronounced bee-ah-lee). I may be off on >the spelling. I think they are Jewish. They are in most NYC bagel stores >that do their own baking. They are the size of a bagel except there is no >hole. The center is pressed flat and some onion and/or garlic and other >spices are sprinkled in the center. The dough seems more like pizza crust >than like a bagel. This recipe ought to work. When I was a kid, we always bought these at a bakery about a 5 minute walk from home in Massachusetts, and I assumed that they were available everywhere until I got a little older and found out that not everyone is Jewish. They've got to be eaten fresh and hot, or at least reheated within a day or two of baking. Stick them in the oven and crisp them up good, slather a little butter on them and eat 'em up. Bialys 2 cups warm water 1 pack Yeast 2 teaspoons sugar 2 1/2 teaspoons kosher salt (or other coarse salt, such as sea salt) 4 1/2 to 5 cups high protein bread flour (the higher the protein, the chewier they'll be) Topping: 1 tablespoon oil 1 1/2 teaspoons poppy seeds 1/3 cup minced onion 1/2 teaspoon salt In large mixing bowl, combine 1/2 cup warm water, yeast, & sugar and let stand until foamy, about 10 minutes. Mix remaining warm water, salt, and flour into yeast mixture. Knead until smooth (the dough will be soft). Place dough ball in a greased bowl, turn it around and place with greased side up. Let rise, cover with plastic until tripled in bulk, about 1 1/2 hours. Punch dough down, turn it over, cover and let rise until doubled. Punch dough down and roll into 2 cylinders. Cut each into 8 rounds. Lay them flat, cover with a towel and let rest. Prepare topping by mixing all topping ingredients. Set aside. Preheat oven to 425F. Pat dough into flattened rounds (a little higher in middle). about 3 1/2 inches in diameter. Place on lightly floured board,cover with a dry towel and then a damp towel and let rise until increased by about half in bulk (half proofed), about 30 minutes. When risen, press bottom of small shot glass in center of each bialy, to make deep flat half dollar size indentation in bialy. Let rise another 15 minutes. (DO NOT LET THEM DOUBLE). Put bialys on ungreased baking sheets. Fill each indentation with about 1 to 2 tablespoons of the topping, but do not spread over the rest of the roll. Bake on upper and lower shelves of the oven for 6 to 7 minutes, then switch pans and reverse positions of pans(front to back) until bialy's are evenly browned, about 5 to 6 minutes more. Cool on racks. They should be crisp, crunchy and delicious, and the onion should be thoroughly translucent and somewhat caramelized. If you don't eat them all up (unlikely), wrap them in a tightly closed plastic bag and freeze. Reheat directly in oven. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.13 --------------- From: "Schaeffer" Subject: New bread machines Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:31:09 -0600 I am eyeing a new bread machines with Quick breads and Cake mixes. Are these modes the same. Joyce Schaeffer schaeffr@escape.ca --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.14 --------------- From: "Schaeffer" Subject: Bagel problems Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:25:14 -0600 I can't seem to get my bagels right. I follow the recipe, but the bagels always come out too chewy and too hard (and not big enough). Anybody have a fool proof way of making appropriately soft bagels? --Don Schaeffer schaeffr@escape.ca --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.15 --------------- From: "dulcinea" Subject: cheesemaking Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:20:47 -0800 In answer to Barbara Moore's question on home cheesemaking. I've been making cheese at home for 20 years. The company you refer to on the East coast is probably the New England Cheesemaking Co. They have many good beginners cheesemaking books. I recommend Cheesemaking Made Easy. Unfortunately I've lost their address & phone number but you can probably get it from information. You can teach yourself with this book, and they will troubleshoot with you on the phone. If you can't find a number for them, try Cheesemaking Supply Outlet. (216) 968-3770. Good luck! Cheesemaking is fun. Roz Macy --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.16 --------------- From: "Jenny Hensley" Subject: chat: Z20 Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:57:33 -0500 I have a Zo -20 and I love it..I've had it 1 1/2 years..I love the horizontal loaf, and have had no trouble removing from pan. Sometimes I have to wait a few minutes so the bread cools, but after that, it falls right out. I've used the dough cycle many, many times, and the jam when I was picking grapes and strawberries. I've used the quick bread a few times, but it's just as easy to stick it in a loaf pan. I also got mine from King Arthur..replacing a machine I had used about five years. (my husband used a knife to get a loaf out and ruined the coating)..I continued to spray it, but never worked quite right. Just a few notes. Jenny --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.17 --------------- From: rls-1850@juno.com Subject: Bialys recipe sources Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:54:44 -0600 Glenn in Den, there's information on and a recipe for bialys in Jewish Cooking in America by Joan Nathan, Alfred A. Knopf, publisher, 1998 on pages 88 and 89. There's also a bialys recipe in Secrets of a Jewish Baker by George Greenstein, The Crossing Press, publisher, 1993 on pages 232-234, and instructions are given for mixing by hand, by food processor with a steel blade, and by dough-mixing machine with a flat beater. Mr. Greenstein also notes two variations on bialys: flats and loaves. Hope this helps. - Ron ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.18 --------------- From: Epwerth15@aol.com Subject: Re: Bialys for Glenn Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:30:16 EST Surprise!! In "The Best Bagels are made at home" by Donna Z. Mellach, there is a recipe for Bialys made in a bread machine! It is as follows: 3/4 c. water 2 tsp.sugar 2/3 tsp. salt e c. all-purpose or bread flour (all-purpose yields a softer product) 1 1/2 tsp. dry yeast Add ingredients in the order recommended by the maker of your machine. Process on the "dough mode" or "Program" or "mix bread cycle" or whatever your machine calls it. Allow dough to rise through the full first rise period after the kneading phase, between 35 min and 1 hour, or until the dough fills about 2/3 of the pan. Upon completion of the dough cycle, remove dough and punch down. Rest the dough for 10 min. and then form it into 8 to 10 equal balls. Flatten each ball with a rolling pin to a 4" diameter circle, about 1/8" thick and place on a greased baking sheet lightly sprinkled with cornmeal. Cover with plastic wrap that has been sprayed with Pam, and allow to rise until puggy. Mix filling ingredients together. Make an indentation in the center of each bal with your thumbs or the bottom of a small shot glass. Dribble a tablespoon of filling into the hole. Bake in preheated 400F oven for 10 to 25 min or until lightly browned. ONION-POPPY SEED FILLING 3 tbl. minced onion 1 tbl. poppy seeds 1 tsp vegetable oil 1/4 tsp. garlic salt 1/4 tsp. kosher or coarse salt SWEET CENTER FILLING 1/2 c. chopped dried fruit: apricots, raisins, prunes, or dates 1/4 c. chopped pecans or walnut 1/2 tsp. cinnamon 1/4 c. melted butter or margarine, or vegetable oil Hope this works for you! I haven't made this one, but I've made several of the bagel from this book, and they all came out great! Evie Werthmann --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.19 --------------- From: "Bonni Brown" Subject: George Greenstein's Bialys Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:54:37 EST This one is for you Dan. I too grew up in NYC and miss the wonderful variety of breads. I had fun a few weeks ago when I was there and spent a few hours watching the bakers at Amy's Bread do their thing through the glass wall. If you're around 9th Ave between 15-16 Streets stop in. I have made many versions of bialys (usually disappointed by most) but the recipe in George Greenstein's book, "Secrets of a Jewish Baker" is the closest yet. I would definately recommend buying the book if you want to try and reproduce some of the New York style breads. The flavor and moistness achieved by using altus (soaked pieces of rye bread, then squeezed out) in his NY Rye made the loaf very close to what I grew up eating. If anyone can suggest how to make a loaf of rye or pumpernick have a more domed, rather than flat, shape I'd appreciate it. BIALYS George Greenstein 2 Cups warm water 3 Packages active dry yeast 4 Teaspoons sugar 3 Teaspoons salt 6 Cups bread flour -- (6 to 6 1/2) Flour for dusting (preferably rye flour -- For Added Flavor) Oil -- for greasing bowl Topping: 3 Tablespoons minced onion 2 Teaspoons poppy seeds -- (optional) 1 Teaspoon vegetable oil 1 Pinch salt Combine topping ingredients and set aside. In a large bowl sprinkle yeast over the warm water to soften; stir to dissolve. Add the sugar, 6 cups of flour, and salt. Mix thoroughly until dough forms up and comes away from the sides of the bowl. Turn out the dough onto a floured work surface and knead, adding small amounts of flour as needed, for 10 to 12 minutes. Shape the dough into a ball; place in a large oiled bowl and turn to coat. Cover and allow to rise 30 minutes. Press out all of the air with your fingers and allow to rise until doubled in size (20-30 minutes). Punch down the dough, divide into thirds, roll out under your palms into ropes, and cut each rope in 6 equal pieces. Roll into balls. Cover and allow the dough to rest for 10 minutes. Rollout each ball into a 3 1/2 inch circle. If the dough becomes too stiff or shrinks back, allow it to rest and go on to the next piece. Evenly space the circles on 2 floured or cornmeal dusted baking pans. Cover with flour rubbed cloths and allow to rise until puffy. Make an indentation from the center outward, leaving a 1-inch rim. A shot glass with a 1" bottom also works well. Press with a circular motion. Dribble bit of the reserved topping into the hole. Dust lightly with reserved flour. Cover with cloths and allow to proof until puffed up. Bake without steam in a preheated 450F oven for 15-20 minutes. Make 18 bialys. ------------- You may have to play with the recipe a bit, for example, I form them into 15 bialys...guess the bakers in my neighborhood were a bit more generous! Bonni ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.20 --------------- From: Tower Family Subject: Crescent rolls Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:20:18 -0500 I've recently purchased a few new stone to bake with and a lot of the recipes call for crescent rolls. I'd like to know if anyone has a good recipe for them. I love this site as I get a lot of good ideas. Thanks --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.21 --------------- From: "Craig Paul" Subject: chat: bread pail Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 06:44:50 -0500 Hi Folks, I looked up the King Arthur web site but did not see anything referred to as a "bread pail". Now I'm curious. Can someone tell me what a bread pail is? I'm always surprised when I find a gadget I don't yet own. Thanks Carol Cabbage --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.22 --------------- From: "J. Mathew" Subject: Bread Pails Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:53:27 -0600 > < pail. I haven't any pails now and would love another. Closer to handmade > than machines, especially 100% whole grains. Good exercise.>> Lehman's Non-Electric Catalog carries them, and that's where I purchased mine a couple of years ago. They have a Web site: http://www.lehmans.com/ Hope this helps, Joan -- Email: gardngirl@geocities.com Recipe Archive: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/8098/recipes.html (NetWord: "gardngirl-recipes") --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.23 --------------- From: "J. Mathew" Subject: bread-rising in microwave Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 13:00:36 -0600 > Has anyone successfully tried the microwave rising method for bread? I > signed up for a class at the local community college but it was cancelled. Yes, I've tried this a few times. There's a good book called Bread In Half The Time which outlines the procedure and provides a variety of recipes -- of course the recipes can be made the "old-fashioned" way as well. This method worked well for me if I was on a very tight schedule and needed to get some bread made pronto...these days I prefer a longer rise and have the time at home needed to do it since I work from home. One of the key points is to test your microwave and determine how powerful it is by heating up a cup of water. Based on its wattage and such you'll be able to judge what power level and how long you should put the bread dough into the microwave to rise. Hope this helps, Joan -- Email: gardngirl@geocities.com Recipe Archive: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/8098/recipes.html (NetWord: "gardngirl-recipes") --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n008.24 --------------- From: Lynn E Cragholm Subject: Bugs in flour and flies on meat Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:53:15 -0900 I have read several messages pertaining to bugs in one's flour, and smile, remembering when I lived in Cameroon, West Africa, from July 1974-July 1975. Our home was a grass house at Bawa, located 35 kilometers from Ngaoundere, where we went once a week for food supplies. Our shopping was done at two open air African markets. We went early in the morning of the day when a cow or two was being butchered, stepped over the remains on our way to long tables on which the meat was displayed, and were lucky if we were able to purchase a bit of filet. Otherwise, we bought whatever chunk we could. The flies that came with the meat were free, so I had to wash the meat thoroughly and cut off all the outside portion before I dared prepare it for consumption. If we were unlucky not to get any of the filet, my only recourse was to hand grind the meat because it otherwise was too tough to eat. Flour was purchased from vendors who had it piled in a heap on a scrap of material laid on the ground. When buying some, the flour was weighed on a small portable scale, then a piece of dirty newspaper was rolled into a cone and filled with the flour. My first order of the day, when back at my grass house, was to sift all the bugs out of the four before placing it in a canister. When using the flour, I sifted it a second and third time. Lutheran missionaries we met in the area told me this is what they did, and convinced me that I shouldn't worry because any bug bits remaining in the flour, and germs from the bugs, would be killed in the baking process. I guess they were right because they survived and so did we. Lynn Cragholm lest2@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. --------------- END bread-bakers.v100.n008 --------------- -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v100.n009 -------------- 001 - John Levin Subject: slightly revised Bialys recipe Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:47:05 -0500 (Note to listmom: slightly revised recipe follows from yesterday's post) [Listmom note ... I blew it on this ... already sent the original one for compilation before I found this .... sorry everyone!! Reggie] At 10:49 AM 01/22/2000 -0800, "Glenn in Denver" wrote in B-B v.100 n.006.8: Hi All. This question is basically addressed to New Yorkers but if you know the answer anyway, jump on in. There is a recipe that I've been having an unusual amount of difficulty finding. They are called BIALYS (pronounced bee-ah-lee). I may be off on the spelling. I think they are Jewish. They are in most NYC bagel stores that do their own baking. They are the size of a bagel except there is no hole. The center is pressed flat and some onion and/or garlic and other spices are sprinkled in the center. The dough seems more like pizza crust than like a bagel. This recipe ought to work. When I was a kid, we always bought these at a bakery about a 5 minute walk from home in Massachusetts, and I assumed that they were available everywhere until I got a little older and found out that not everyone is Jewish. They've got to be eaten fresh and hot, or at least reheated within a day or two of baking. Stick them in the oven and crisp them up good, slather a little butter on them and eat 'em up. Bialys 2 cups warm water 1 pack yeast 1 teaspoon sugar 2 1/2 teaspoons kosher salt (or other coarse salt, such as sea salt) 4 1/2 to 5 cups high protein bread flour (the higher the protein, the chewier they'll be) Topping: 1 tablespoon oil 1 1/2 teaspoons poppy seeds 1/3 cup minced onion 1/2 teaspoon salt In large mixing bowl, combine 1/2 cup warm water, yeast, & sugar and let stand until foamy, about 10 minutes. Mix remaining warm water, salt, and flour into yeast mixture. Knead until smooth (the dough will be soft). Place dough ball in a greased bowl, turn it around and place with greased side up. Let rise, cover with plastic until tripled in bulk, about 1 1/2 hours. Punch dough down, turn it over, cover and let rise until doubled. Punch dough down and roll into 2 cylinders. Cut each into 8 rounds. Lay them flat, cover with a towel and let rest. Prepare topping by mixing all topping ingredients. Set aside. Preheat oven to 425F. Pat dough into flattened rounds (a little higher in middle). about 3 1/2 inches in diameter. Place on lightly floured board,cover with a dry towel and then a damp towel and let rise until increased by about half in bulk (half proofed), about 30 minutes. When risen, press bottom of small shot glass in center of each bialy, to make deep flat half dollar size indentation in bialy. Let rise another 15 minutes. (DO NOT LET THEM DOUBLE). Put bialys on ungreased baking sheets. Fill each indentation with about 1 to 2 tablespoons of the topping, but do not spread over the rest of the roll. Bake on upper and lower shelves of the oven for 6 to 7 minutes, then switch pans and reverse positions of pans (front to back) until bialys are evenly browned, about 5 to 6 minutes more. If the indentation disappears while baking because the dough springs up too high, pull out of oven, mash down the center carefully with a spoon and return any onion mixture that's spilled out. Return to oven to finish baking. Bialys should be lightly browned. Cool completely on racks. When reheated in the oven just before serving, hey should be crisp, crunchy and delicious, and the onion should be thoroughly translucent and somewhat caramelized. If you don't eat them all up (unlikely), wrap them in a tightly closed plastic bag and freeze. Reheat directly in oven. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n009.2 --------------- From: Ed Okie Subject: "walking" mixers Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:42:15 -0500 The problem of dough mixers "walking" across a countertop is frequently mentioned - comments often hinting "pro-or-con" about a given brand. From an engineering viewpoint I'd suggest that 90% of the problem isn't "machine" related, but of the four feet trying support/stabilize the mixer. If kitchen counters aren't perfectly flat (mine isn't), four points of support allow a wobble, i.e., one of four points isn't firmly in contact with the counter... and the mixer does the "countertop dance." Photographers, in comparison, use - tripods (three legs) as supporting bases because, from an engineering perspective, three points are self-stabilizing, i.e, fit solidly onto - any - surface. The solution to stabilizing the four-leg dough mixer: 1. Always use it at one specific countertop location (ideally, don't move it). 2. Determine which of the four feet doesn't fully support the mixer. To wit: Place four separate pieces of paper under each leg and then attempt to pull out the paper; whichever one slides out too easily is the short leg. 3. Adjust the leg height. If not a screw-height adjustment, glue shims - piece(s) of paper or plastic - to the short leg to achieve an "all four feet" solidly on the counter... and you'll eliminate 90% of mixer walking problems. - Ed Okie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n009.3 --------------- From: "Andreas Wagner" Subject: German Bauernbrot Recipe & Cheese Fondue Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:03:58 +0100 >From: Elsie Baugh >Subject: Looking for German Bauernbrot Recipe I used to bake Bauernbrot years ago in Germany to a traditional Bavarian recipe, not always successfully. I don't have the exact quantities any more but the basic mix was 2/3 rye flour to 1/3 wheat, and it is usually made with sourdough and added yeast, as that amount of rye doesn't really rise well enough with yeast alone. To the dough you add a mix of spices: caraway, anisseed (not star anise) and coriander seeds, crushed up in a mortar. The loaves are shaped into rounds and baked on a floured baking sheet at a fairly high temperature. Cut a small cross on the the center before you put them in to bake and brush with water as soon as you take them out to give them the characteristic glaze They usually turned out relatively flat, mainly due to my lack of experience with sourdough and bread baking generally. Hope this helps >From: "Russell J. Fletcher" >Subject: REQUEST German bread ABM and fondue due to Birthday Here's a cheese fondue recipe which was given to me by a Swiss friend 400g emmental cheese - grated 200g gruyere cheese (the real swiss stuff!) grated 400ml white wine 1 clove garlic 1teasp corn starch 4 tbsp cherry eau de vie salt, white pepper, nutmeg, paprika Cut the garlic in half and wipe the inside of your fondue pot with the cut sides. Mix the conrnstarch with the eau de vie. Add the white wine to the pan and heat. Just before it begins to boil add the cheese slowly, constantly stirring in a figure of eight pattern - don't stop stirring. Once the cheese is melting add the eau de vie and keep on the heat for another three minutes, stirring, and add your seasonings to taste. Serve immediately (on a spirit lamp) with crusty french bread cut into cubes and white wine or more eau de vie. enjoy... Andreas --------------------------------------------------------- For great holiday accommodation in the south of France visit our website at http://perso.wanadoo.fr/saint-chinian/ --------------------------------------------------------- --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n009.4 --------------- From: "Pat Stewart" Subject: Coverting Recipes for 2-lb Machine Loaf Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:45:59 -0500 I recently acquired a 2-pound Zo. All of my favorite machine recipes are for either 1- or 1 1/2-pound loaves. I've tried doubling the 1-pound recipes a couple of times with varying and less than optimal results (one recipe was way too dry and the other was mush). Can anyone give me a clue on how to adapt the recipes I have to 2-pounds? Most of them are in the Bread Machine Magic book. If there is no good rule of thumb, I may just go back to all bread-by-hand, although I do not have the luxury of that much time on my hands. Thanks to anyone who can help! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n009.5 --------------- From: Paul and Ruth Provance Subject: More Bialys Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:09:55 -0500 And here's another recipe for Bialys: http://www.betterbaking.com/alac/alacarte2bial.html Ruth --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n009.6 --------------- From: Paul and Ruth Provance Subject: Bialys Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:48:05 -0500 There is a recipe for Onion Bialys on page 90 of "Baking With Julia," which should be available at your local library, if you don't want to buy a copy. Not a cheap book. If you really can't find it, I could type it up, but, like all the recipes in the book, it is rather long and detailed. Which is good if you're baking it, bad if you're typing it! Ruth --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n009.7 --------------- From: Frank.Yuhasz@pentairpump.com Subject: Horizontal Bread Machine Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:36:50 -0500 My second bread machine (52 loaves so far) from Williams-Sonoma is of the horizontal configuration. It does a fine job, and I am very pleased with it. By the way, my initial machine, also from Williams-Sonoma, is of the vertical design, and is still going strong.....704 loaves to date! A tip I saw in the King Arthur catalogue about minimizing the large gap made by the kneading blade in the bottom of the finished machine-baked loaf was a simple one: remove the kneading blade from the machine at the start of the final rise. (Obviously, one must be at home to do this.....perhaps set a timer to the right time, to pull out the dough, pop out the blade, and return the dough to the machine.) Happy Baking! Carolyn Dandalides --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n009.8 --------------- From: Frank.Yuhasz@pentairpump.com Subject: Hearth Bread Recipe Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:28:45 -0500 My most recent order from King Arthur Flour's Baker's Catalogue included a unique t-shirt with their logo on the front and their Hearth Bread recipe on the back. When I read the wording, I knew that I just had to have it, and thought that many of you would enjoy their sentiment. Pour 2 cups of clear pure water into a bowl. Sweeten with a tablespoon of honey. Quicken with a tablespoon of yeast. Electrify with a tablespoon of salt. Give it body with 6 cups of good King Arthur Flour. Knead life into it and watch it grow. Shape into two loaves and grow again. Touch with fire (450 degrees F.) for 25 minutes. Find a friend. Break bread. Celebrate life. Happy Baking! Carolyn Dandalides --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n009.9 --------------- From: "Joe & Cheryl DeShon" Subject: bread machine hint Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:10:34 -0600 << I had a Zojiurshi V20 at one time and had a great deal of trouble removing the finished loaf from the pan. There are two paddles, which do a very nice job of working the dough, but my guess is that is the removal problem. This list is wonderful -- there is so much to learn about bread! Sheila in Missouri >> I know that a lot of you buy from King Arthur, but for those of you who don't this might come in handy; it was in the most recent King Arthur catalogue: To avoid the large hole in the bottom of bread machine-baked loaves, remove the kneading blade just before the bread's final rising; you'll be left with just a small hole. Sheila, you're right, sometimes getting the bread out of the pan is a hard job -- probably because of the two paddles. Trying this hint might help, though! Mixie in Missouri --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n009.10 --------------- From: jillmyers1@juno.com Subject: Looking for German Blackbread Recipe/starter offer Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:21:58 -0800 I can buy blackbread from Alpine but they need a recovery room for the shock of the price at the deli. Here is a clue too.... they sell it 8 slices at a time? Gosh, if I wanted a loaf I'd have a mortgage and a payment book?!! I appreciate any help you can give. By-the-way... if you are interested in adopting some of my own sourdough starter ... 'e'me! I'm increasing the amount and getting some zip lock bags and might need a little help in the postage department probably 2 oz or so, but other than that-let's go for it! Too much of a good thing is wonderful! ; D Jill 'Abby Normal' ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n009.11 --------------- From: jillmyers1@juno.com Subject: For the breadboard: Re: Starter too watery? Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:43:14 -0800 Your starter is too watery? Needs to grow for while.... > Add more flour and leave it out on the counter. When you stick it back in the frige it retards growth. We used to put the bakers racks back in the walk-in to slow the raising to time it for the ovens to be available. Can't have everything rise at the same time or you got lotsa over-inflated now-what-am-I-gonna-do-with-this-stuff to deal with. ( I had 5 ovens to work with at Alpha-Beta/ Ralphs and I forget I only have the old dinosaur here at home at times! ut-oh! lol & the convection oven was a lotta laffs too. ; }Frozen dough product has a different requirement than freshly made dough.) > Didja know when your bread gets over raised you can pound it down, cut > it in half, add some warm water and flour and it'll come back up for ya? > That just means that the amount of yeast has exceeded the proportion of > available 'feeding flour to hold the shape and make an acceptible > product. We always threw it away... makes ya sick thinkin about the > WASTE!!! We'd have to take the outdated bread 3 days- gets chucked out- to the dumpster and we hadda throw it in the trash. There'd be someone in there getting food?!! I neverfelt so humbled in my life!!! WE WEREN'T ALLOWED TO GIVE IT TO THEM EITHER! So I'd just leave the cart out there if I could and hope they'd find the pastries and breads and stuff. I still feel ashamed of the company being that way. Puts a lump in my throat just thinkin about it. Guy came in wanting to know when we were throwing the 'good stuff' out?! ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n009.12 --------------- From: Blanche007@aol.com Subject: Bialy Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:40:52 EST Bialy Recipe for Glenn: Here's a recipe that I developed for my book (Pizza, Focaccia, etc, etc, From Your Bread Machine Perfect Every Time). I have to caution you that you'll probably never be able to match exactly the taste and texture of a real NY bialy, but these get exponentially better as the distance between you and NY City increases. You can get a free sample of my Bread Dough Enhancer and Relaxer by emailing me at blanche007@aol.com: Lora Brody For the dough: 2 teaspoons yeast 3 cups all purpose flour (I use King Arthur all purpose) 2 teaspoon sugar 2 teaspoons kosher salt 1 rounded tablesppon Lora Brody's Bread Dough Enhancer 2 rounded tablespoons Lora Brody's Dough Relaxer 10-12 ounces water to make a soft,supple dough after 5-6 minutes of kneading. Prepare the dough in either a bread machine, stand mixer or food processor, kneading until a soft, supple ball forms. Rest 15 minutes, then knead for another 3-4 minutes. Rise in a warm place until double. Meanwhile prepare the filling: 2 tablespoons vegetable oil 1 large onion, coarsely chopped (to make about 1 1/2 cups) 2 rounded tablespoons poppy seeds 1 1/2 teaspoon kosher salt Heat the oil in a skillet and saute the onions until they are limp and translucent. Off the heat stir in the poppy seeds and salt. Cool to room temperature. Transfer the dough to a well-floured board. One key to success is not to skimp on the flour . Cut the dough into 3 equal pieces and roll each into a 6" rope. Cut each rope into 3 equal parts and roll each into a ball. Sprinkle the balls with flour, cover them with a clean dish towel and let them rest for 10 minutes. Sprinkle two heavy duty baking sheets liberally with cornmeal. Flatten each ball into a 4-5 inch circle. Place the circles on the prepared sheets about, leaving about an inch of space between each. Sprinkle with flour, cover with the dish towel and let them rise 15 minutes. Preheat the oven to 450F with the rack in the center position. Use your fingers to firmly push in the center of each circle to form a 1/2" deep well about 2" across. Fill the well with the onion filling. Cover and rise 10 minutes. Just before placing the sheets in the oven use your fingers to push the indented onion-filled area down one more time. Bake the bialys 17-20 minutes of until they are puffed up and just vent slightly browned. Eat hot or warm or toasted after they have been cooled. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n009.13 --------------- From: "Mark Judman" Subject: Bialys Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:24:25 -0500 Glenn, A noble quest. I'm with you, I'd love to find a decent recipe. But first, yes bialys are a Jewish bread, coming originally from Bialystock Poland. They are sold in many bagel shops but unfortunately, since their composition is very different from bagels, and since I think the vast majority of people have never tasted the real thing, they're uniformly bad, fake, inauthentic and wrong. What bagel shops do, I imagine, is take bagel dough, which is dry, flatten it into a disk, poke a depression in the center, add the onion filling, (more about that later), and bake it, (unlike bagels, skipping the boiling step). No good. It's been years since I've had a great bialy. I've had OK ones from a bialy shop on NYC's lower east side and packaged ones from Brooklyn NY available in my NJ supermarket. I've tried every printed bialy recipe I've come across and they're all wrong in my opinion. This includes (I believe) books by George Greenstein, Joan Nathan, Mimi Sheraton and Bernard Clayton. Of the four or five I've tried only one (I can't remember who) got the filling right, as far as mixing bread crumbs with finely minced onion. This is apparently a secret. My wife made a brilliant observation when she remarked on the similarity between the crumb and texture of bialys and that of my ciabatta, an Italian bread which is so wet that it's difficult or impossible to knead by hand. I think you're right, Glenn, about it being more like pizza crust which is also a pretty wet dough. That's why bialys always have a flour coating on them -- they're so wet they can only be handled by first dumping them into flour. (Of course!) I've tried several times to make bialys by interpolating the two recipes but the best I've gotten is OK-ish, clearly not good enough. So, there's some ingredient or technique involved in bialys which I don't know. The people who print the recipes don't know either, and I suspect the people who did know are probably dead or retired and not talking. Mark Judman Glenn in Den wrote: >There is a recipe that I've been having an unusual amount of difficulty >finding. They are called BIALYS (pronounced bee-ah-lee). I may be off on >the spelling. I think they are Jewish. They are in most NYC bagel stores >that do their own baking. They are the size of a bagel except there is no >hole. The center is pressed flat and some onion and/or garlic and other >spices are sprinkled in the center. The dough seems more like pizza crust >than like a bagel. >If anyone has the recipe, could you please post it? I doubt it would be a >bread machine recipe (except of course to use the dough cycle). --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n009.14 --------------- From: "Michael C. Zusman" Subject: Rye Bread & Such Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:04:28 -0800 I am happy to share my rye recipe. It is adapted from a formula used by the American team in the Coup du Monde bread baking competition in Paris a few years back. It is a bit elaborate, and also requires some less than common ingredients. I am including notes and commentary for your edification. The formula is for about a 10.5# batch. It can easily be cut back to a smaller batch, although ideally you should end up with total dough weight divisible by 18 oz. (which is a fun math challenge since the formula is expressed in metric measures). I recommend a good scale to any baker who doesn't have one. ONION RYE Make Pre-Ferment: 300g Rye Starter (Note 1) 300g Water 500g High Protein Bread Flour (Note 2) Make Soaker: 500g Coarse Rye Meal (Note 3) 500g Water Soaker and Pre-ferment should be made approximately 8 hours ahead of dough preparation. Each should be covered after preparation to avoid surface drying. Preferment should be well risen, and just starting to recede, when ready to use. (I have cheated and made the dough only after about 4-6 hours. I have also been distracted and not made the dough for 12 or 16 hours. These variations are not recommended, although the end product was still pretty good.) Make Dough: 1250g High Protein Bread Flour 250g Light Rye Flour 20-25g Instant Dry Yeast 50g Salt 150g Brown Sugar Preferment Soaker 500-600g Water 200g Roasted Chopped Onion (Note 4) 100g Caraway Seeds 50g Charnushka Seeds (Note 5) Combine initial dry ingredients first. Whisk with your hand or wire whisk to disperse yeast, salt and sugar. Add preferment, soaker and about 2/3 of water and mix at low speed to incorporate all, about 2-3 minutes. Add onion, mix at low speed for another minute or so until incorporated. At this point, dough should be fairly firm, maybe even a bit overly dry with some excess flour still remaining unincorporated. Goal with a rye dough is to have a heavy, well-developed but still slightly sticky end product. Rye is sticky stuff. If dough is too dry, add most/all of remaining water, a little at a time, until dough is the right consistency or just a slight bit too soft. Mix 2-3 more minutes at medium speed to develop gluten. Add seeds; mix at low speed to incorporate, about a minute or two. Turn out on to lightly floured work surface. Knead by hand for a minute or two, mostly to feel that the dough is right (add a bit more flour, if needed) and to form a loose ball. Usual rising and proofing rules: Initial rise in lightly oiled bowl, covered, until doubled (you can actually do this two or even three times). Punch down. Divide into one and one-half pound pieces (approx.). You then want to form log-shaped loaves about 8 or so inches long. (Shaping is the hardest thing for me to do, let alone explain, so just make your loaves about half the height and width and 2/3 the length you hope to end up with, by folded letter or rolled out ball methods or whatever works for you, doing your best to end up with a well sealed seam and nicely rounded ends. Many bread baking books have helpful pictures that try to show you what to do. There is no substitute for repeated experience, however). Lay out each loaf, seam side down, on parchment paper-covered baking sheets, lightly sprinkled with polenta or coarse-ground corn meal. Preheat oven at this point to 375F. Allow loaves to rise, covered, for an hour or so, until nearly doubled. Brush loaves with egg wash mixture (1 large egg + 2T water). Slash tops of loaves near each end and in the middle, perpendicular to length of loaf, with lame or extremely sharp knife, and immediately put trays in oven. (For crisper, chewier crust, increase initial oven temp to 425F; spray oven with water right before trays go in, when they go in, after two minutes, after four minutes and after another minute, reducing temp to 375F after initial five minutes or when loaves first start to show color). Bake for 15-17 minutes, turn trays to avoid uneven baking, then bake for another 15-17 minutes until loaves are deeply browned. They are ready, as so many baker/authors explain, when a tap on the bottom yields a hollow sound and a thermometer inserted into the middle of the loaf shows an internal temp of 190F or better. Cool on racks for at least 45 minutes before trying to slice. Notes #1: Starter is a challenge all by itself. You can start from scratch by combining a few ounces of water and an equal weight of light rye flour and let it sit out uncovered for a few days in the hope that enough wild yeast will populate the mixture to begin the fermentation process. If it takes, you add more flour and water (again in equal proportions) to build the starter, and continue to do so over several days (always doubling the amounts or dumping half or more of the earlier quantity), until you end up with a starter that rises and bubbles up well within 4-6 hours after a feeding. There is no need to use anything but flour and water. Some purists rail against any added ingredients. Others suggest a start with a pinch of domesticated yeast to get the ball rolling. I figure the saccharomyces will eventually give way to the wild stuff after a while anyway. Then there is the Nancy Silverton ("Breads From The La Brea Bakery") method, with the grapes. Very elaborate and ritualized. Hey, whatever works to ferment your flour. As an alternative to starting from scratch, you can take an established white starter and convert it to rye, i.e. start feeding with rye instead of white flour over a period of several days, until the rye is predominant. If you feed and dump, eventually all the white stuff will disappear, leaving a pure rye culture. If your starter is very active, use the lesser amount of yeast mentioned in the recipe (or even a little less); the more active the starter, the greater the leavening power it has in the preferment. #2: You want to use a high protein bread flour (plain bread flour, with an ounce or so per pound of wheat gluten added, will do nicely) because an enzyme in the onions tends to break down the gluten too much otherwise. Also, the rye flour in the recipe has very little or no gluten forming capacity. What happens to your beautifully formed loaves when the gluten decays excessively during the proof stage is not very attractive. Trust me. I know my friend George Greenstein ("Secrets Of A Jewish Baker") says to use "first clear flour." George even sent me some, and it is good stuff (if you can find it). It is not, however, high in protein. So use it in other rye bread recipes, but not if you are going to use onions. #3: Available from Bob's Red Mill. Use meal if possible because it gives the bread a nice texture. If you must, you can go with a course rye flour as an alternative. #4: Two to three medium yellow onions, chopped into about an 1/8" to 1/4" dice, mixed well with 2-3T olive oil, should be spread on a baking tray and placed into a 400F oven. After 20 minutes, you want to pull the tray, move the onion together into a pile, turn and re-spread them. Roast for another 15 minutes at 350F. Go through the same process again, and turn oven down to 250F for another 20-30 minutes. The goal here is to get your onions well carmelized and cooked-down to 1/4 or less of their original volume. I suppose you could use dehydrated onions and save the work, but I never have. The total amount of onion you use in this recipe is a matter of taste. Roasted onions should be totally cooled before adding to other ingredients. #5: Spelling of the word varies. Available from Penzey's or locally (in Portland) from Oregon Spice Co. Good luck trying to find it at any grocery store. Also known as black caraway, nigella or nigella sativa seeds. Not to be confused with black onion seeds which are a totally different creature. Chernushka seeds are small and roundish with a distinctive smoky flavor. A good rye should not omit them. Other Comments: Don't waste your time or money on rye bread or pumpernickel mixes or other overpriced crap. If you want a dark rye, add a few grams of cocoa powder, molasses, instant coffee powder or black shoe polish--or a little of each (just kidding about the shoe polish). If you can find it, liquid or crystal caramel coloring ought to do the trick as an alternative. In my opinion, there is no real difference between light and dark rye--the latter has just been colored. Although I don't have the facts on this, my theory is that dark rye was created by some old Russian for the sole purpose of hiding the arguably unattractive grayish color of natural rye. A word on "sour" taste. A good bread which uses sour dough starter should be slightly tangy, not intensely sour. This rye recipe will have that tangy characteristic (which the caraway tends to emphasize). Any mature starter used in a slowly fermented dough will add this quality. Personally, the thought of adding souring agents to any bread is abhorrent (and will throw off the pH balance of the dough). Those who think that real sourdough must be really sour (think factory made San Francisco "Sour") have fallen prey to such additives. If you think I am making this up, check the ingredients; you will invariably find fumaric or tartaric acid or some such thing on the list. Yuck. E-mail me if you have any questions. --mcz --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n009.15 --------------- From: "Bruce J. Edwards" Subject: Pizza dough Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:49:32 -0500 For Dan Aldrich - This is our favorite pizza dough - it comes crisp on the bottom, but chewy inside. I found this recipe in a Yankee Magazine some time back: 1-2/3 c bread flour 1 pkg active dry yeast 1 tsp sugar 1 tsp salt 1-1/4 c warm water 2 tsp olive oil 1-1/2 c semolina flour Add to bread machine and process for dough. If making by hand, dissolve yeast and sugar in water, add 1 c flour, salt and oil, then add semolina. Knead in remaining flour til smooth and elastic. Place in greased bowl, cover with plastic wrap and let rise til double. Barbara --------------- END bread-bakers.v100.n009 --------------- -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v100.n010 -------------- 001 - "Dave Wester" Subject: microwave rising Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:33:36 -0600 In response to Barbara Moore who wanted to know about using a microwave for bread rising--I tried this method many years ago when I first got my microwave and it works very well. Here is the method from my cookbook (mine is a 750 watt oven so you may need to make adjustments based on the size of yours). Put 1 cup of water in a 2-cup glass measure and place it in the oven. Bring the water to a boil on HI, about 3-3 1/2 minutes. Place the dough in the oven next to the water (dough must be in a glass or plastic bowl, of course). Set the oven at the lowest possible setting and the timer for 10 min. When the timer beeps leave the dough in the oven for another 20 min. or until double. You can then form it into loaves, again using only non-metal pans, and repeat the above directions for rising in the pans. I used this method quite a bit when I first discovered it but stopped because I thought I might wear out my microwave before its time (I bake a lot of bread and figured I was subjecting the oven to a lot of "run" time). I didn't encounter any problems with the final product after using this method and it's a handy thing to know if you need bread in a hurry occasionally. Good luck...Pat --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n010.2 --------------- From: Keva Levin Subject: Bagels Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:00:21 -0700 (MST) These are the kind of bagels my New York City wife says she remembers eating as a child. INGREDIENTS: 4 cups unbleached white flour 2 ts salt\ 1 tb malt syrup or powder (obtained at a health food store) 4 ts vital wheat gluten 1 1/2 ts dry yeast 1 1/4 cups warm water (80-90F) Mix flour, salt malt, vital wheat gluten, yeast & water in bowl of mixer with regular beater at the lowest speed for about 4 minutes. Then switch to the dough hook & increase the speed to 2. Continue mixing until dough is cohesive & stiff, 8-10 minutes. Turn dough on to work surface; divide into 8 portions, about 4 ounces each. Roll pieces into smooth balls & cover with a towel or plastic wrap to rest for 10 minutes. Roll dough balls into a rope approx 11-inches long. Overlap the ends of the rope about 1-inch & wet the ends & then pinch the overlapped area together. Place the bagels on a teflon coated sheet or cornmeal dusted parchment covered baking sheet. Cover tightly with foil. Refrigerate overnight. (12-18 hours). The next morning take the bagels out of the refrigerator & let stand for approx 20 minutes. Drop the bagels into a kettle of boiling water & let sit there for approx 45 seconds & then turn over with a chinese skimmer or a slotted spoon letting them sit for another 45 seconds. Preheat oven to 450F. Set rack to center position. Apply toppings to the bagels and place the bagels on the baking sheet. Bake for approx 20 minutes. You can use your bread-making machine to make these also--just use the dough only setting & take the dough out before any rising cycle starts. TOPPINGS: 2 tb of sesame seeds, poppy seeds, & sunflower seeds & 1 tb each of caraway seeds,sea or kosher salt, dehydratedonion & dehydrated garlic flakes --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n010.3 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: another Sally Lunn bread Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:28:32 -0800 Here is another Sally Lunn from my files. It is for the bread machine * Exported from MasterCook * Sally Lunn Bread Recipe By : Great Bread Machine Recipes Serving Size : 14 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread Machine Bread Bakers Mailing List Breads Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 Teaspoon Bread Machine Yeast 4 Tablespoons Sugar 3 Cups Bread Flour 1 Teaspoon Salt 5 Ounces Warm Milk 2 Eggs 5 1/2 Tablespoons Butter 1/2 Cup Warm Water Makes 1 1/2 pound loaf: Add ingredients as your bread machine instructs. This is a rich variation on the white-bread theme with egg and extra sugar. It makes a rich sandwich bread and is excellent for toast. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n010.4 --------------- From: "Mark Judman" Subject: Re: Bialys -- Follow-up Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:28:44 -0500 This is a follow-up to Glenn's question regarding bialys. No recipes I've seen regarding making bialys has been remotely close to the real thing, as my wife and I remember them. The best the recipes seem to produce are good, though somewhat strange looking onion rolls. The closest I've been able to come has consisted of making ciabatta dough without the milk, forming into 4" rounds, dumping them into flour for easily handling (it's a very very wet dough), letting them proof, poking a depression (not hole) in the center, and putting in about a quarter to a half teaspoon mixture of minced onions and bread crumbs, baking at 450F. till browned. But they're still not right, in my opinion. If anybody's gotten good results and is familiar with the real thing I'd love to hear from them. Notes: The ciabatta recipe I use is from Carol Field's "The Italian Baker", a wonderful book. Milk. Since observant Jews don't consume meat and milk together, no authentic Jewish bread would ever have milk products as an ingredient. By leaving out milk, the bread could be eaten with either milk or meat products (but not at the same time). This makes it very easy to eliminate many published recipes for "NY" rye bread and bagels -- creative, maybe, authentic, no. Mark Judman --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n010.5 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Bialys (Polish) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:22:48 -0800 Here is a recipe that covers all 3 sizes of loaves. It is from More Bread Machine Magic, Linda Rehberg & Lois Conway. This is a very, very good book. In fact their series of Bread Machine Magic books are wonderful. * Exported from MasterCook * Bialys (Polish) Recipe By : More Bread Machine Magic, Linda Rehberg & Lois Conway Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Bread Machine Bread-Bakers Mailing List Breads Ethnic Hand Made Low Fat Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 1/2 Lb Loaf: -- (2 Lb Loaf) 1 C Water -- (1 3/8 C) 1 1/2 Tbsp Oil -- (2 Tbsp) 1 Tbsp Sugar -- (4 Tsp) 1 1/2 Tsp Salt -- (2 Tsp) 3 C Bread Flour -- (4 C) 2 Tsp Dry Yeast -- (2 1/2 Tsp) Small Loaf Dough: 3/4 C water 1 Tbsp oil 2 tsp sugar 1 tsp salt 2 C bread flour 1 1/2 tsp dry yeast 1-Place dough ingredient in bread pan, select Dough setting, press start. 2-When dough has risen long enough, the machine will beep. Turn off bread machine, remove bread pan, and turn out dough onto a lightly floured countertop or cutting board. Gently roll and stretch dough into a 10" (15") (20") rope. With a sharp knife, divide dough into (10) (15) (20) pieces; roll each into a ball. FILLING: 3 T. (4-1/2 T) (6 T.) Minced Onion 2 tsp. (1 T) (4 tsp) Poppy Seeds 1 tsp. (1-1/2 tsp) (2 tsp) Oil 1 pinch (1/8 tsp) (1/4 tsp) Salt 3-Cover balls w/towel and let rest 10 min. Meanwhile, combine the topping ingredient. 4-With rolling pin, roll each ball into 3-1/2" circles. Place on ungreased baking sheets. Cover with a towel and let rise in a warm oven until almost doubled in size, about 30-45 min. (Hint: To warm oven slightly, turn over on Warm setting for 1 minute, then turn it off, and place covered dough in oven to rise. Remove pan from oven before preheating). 5-With thumbs or the bottom of a shot glass, gently depress the center of each roll. Fill with about 1 tsp. of the onion mixture. cover and let rise for 15 min more while preheating the oven to 450F. 6-Bake for 20-25 minutes until golden-brown. Remove from oven and cool on a rack. Small recipe yields 10 rolls Medium recipe yields 15 rolls Large recipe yields 20 rolls Bake Cycle: dough Linda Rehberg and Lois Conway's book, More Bread Machine Magic, published by St Martin's Griffin, ISBN 0-312-16935-3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n010.6 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: FYI - Summer Loaf 2000 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:39:11 -0800 For your information, Summer Loaf 2000 will be taking place in Portland on Saturday, August 5. Keep the date open. This is a fun and very educational event. Reggie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n010.7 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Admin Note - Please Read Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:50:45 -0800 Please don't send in any text other then plain text. I am going to start returning notes to people who send them. We are spending many extra hours each week fixing the posts so they appear clean in the digest. Your help in this would be appreciated. Email messages that include html code or attachments cause problems for the list. Please don't include files as attachments to your email. Paste the text from the file directly into your message. Some email programs automatically generate html code and/or attachments. Here is an explanation of the problem and instructions for how to avoid it. Many of the newer email programs (Eudora, Microsoft Outlook/Outlook Express, Netscape) encourage users to send email containing multiple fonts, embedded pictures, etc. This is called such things as "rich text", "styled text", "html mail". The actual message sent will contain at least two parts. The first is a plain text version of the message, the second is the same text with embedded html tags. If there are pictures or address cards attached, there will be more parts. As individual messages, html mail causes few problems. The recipient's email program will display the message as sent if it is capable (and enabled), if not, it will display the plain text version and hide the html version. Some older email programs, though, will not understand the encoding and will show both the plain text and the html-encoded version of the message. When an html email is incorporated into a list digest, it is not handled correctly. The raw html codes appear as plain text, adding garbage to the digest. Attached pictures are seen as in encoded form - long strings of letters and numbers. Those of you receiving bread-bakers might have seen this ... sometimes we don't catch them and they appear in the digest. It is not difficult to configure your email program to send messages to bread-bakers as plain text. We VERY STRONGLY request all of you to make these changes so that all messages sent to the list are plain text messages. Microsoft Outlook ================= If you use Microsoft Outlook or Outlook Express to send email, you have two choices. You can create an entry in the Address Book for bread-bakers. On the Name tab of the Properties for the bread-bakers entry, there is a checkbox at the bottom left labeled "Send E-Mail using plain text only.". This box should be checked. If you already have an Address Book entry for bread-bakers, select the bread-bakers entry in the Address Book and then select File/Properties and then click the Name tab. If you create a new entry for bread-bakers, the Name tab will be presented to you to fill out. The other way to send plain text from Outlook is to first begin the message. Then select the Format menu and click the "Plain Text" item. Netscape ======== If you use Netscape email, the options are similar. In the Address Book, the Name tab of an address card has a checkbox labeled "Prefers to receive rich text (HTML) mail". This box should NOT be checked. You are presented with this tab when you create a new card. If the card already exists, select it in the Address Book and then select Edit/Card properties. Alternatively, begin a new message to bread-bakers then click the "Message Sending Options" tab in the "Addressing Area" (select View/Show Addressing Area if you can't see this) and then select "Plain Text" from the Format option box. Netscape email will add an attachment called a vCard to your messages if you tell it to. To unselect this go to the Edit/Preferences menu item, expand the Mail & Newsgroups branch and select the Identity item. Clear the check mark for "Attach my personal card to messages (as a vCard)". Eudora ====== If you use Eudora, select the Tools/Options menu item, then select "Styled Text". Under the "When sending mail with styled text (HTML):" heading, check the "Ask me each time" box. Uncheck the "Send the signature with styles" box. If you never want to send html mail, check the "Send plain text only" box. Alternatively, write the message to bread-bakers and before sending (or queuing) it, select all the text in the message (using CTRL-A or the Edit/Select All menu item) and then click the "Clear Formatting" button on the formatting bar. If you can't see the formatting bar, check the "Show formatting bar" box in Tools/Options/Styled Text page. We thank you for your cooperation. Reggie & Jeff --------------- END bread-bakers.v100.n010 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2000 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved