Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 12:50:08 -0800 (PST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v100.n074 -------------- 001 - TheGuamTarheels@webtv.net - Ultimate Dispenser Problems 002 - Nifcon@aol.com - Reggie's sticking dispenser 003 - Donald L Thacker Subject: Re: Sourdough Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 14:34:53 -0500 I have an elementary question regarding the term "refresher" in a sourdough recipe. I understand how to refresh the remainder of my PET but I need to know what it means in a recipe that says, "1 cup sourdough starter, refreshed". Also is it possible to use my PET which I bought from KA in place of any sponge in a sourdough recipe? Thanks --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.4 --------------- From: "dphawn" Subject: cranberry bread request Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 07:24:42 -0500 I made some wonderful cranberry sauce for Thanksgiving. Too much of it, in fact. The recipe contained two bags of cranberries, orange juice, brown sugar, orange zest and cinnamon sticks. Does anybody have any idea how to turn the leftovers into some sort of cranberry bread? I have a bread machine, but a quick bread recipe would be great too. Thanks! Pat Hawn --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.5 --------------- From: TheGuamTarheels@webtv.net (The Ol' Tarheel) Subject: Keeping Bread Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 08:58:27 -0500 (EST) Someone recently mentioned putting their bread into the refrigerator to keep it fresh. The worst place to keep your bread (in or out of any sort of a keeper) is in the refrigerator. That average fridge temperature of 40 degrees F is perfect for making it go stale. Keep it in a keeper on your kitchen counter if it will be eaten within a few days or freeze it (sliced first is best). Bob the Tarheel Baker --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.6 --------------- From: Sue Hermosillo Subject: Pain de Mie Pan Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 08:11:27 -0800 I've complained about the shape of my homemade bread for sandwiches for years; now my husband has offered to get me a Pain de Mie (Pullman) Pan for my January birthday. (It's on page 15 of the Dec. 2000 King Arthur Flour catalogue). Has anyone used one? I'd like some feedback before committing to that kind of investment. If it works as described I'll take it in a heartbeat, it's just that I've never baked a bread with a top like that on the pan. Thanks for any help. Sue --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.7 --------------- From: Kevin Bell Subject: Gluten Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 07:46:02 -0800 I have done some basic calculations to use vital wheat gluten to make high gluten flour and clear flour from bread flour. With vital wheat gluten at 40% protein and bread flour at 12-12.5% protein, high gluten at 13.5-14% and clear at 16%. To the measuring cup I add 1 Tablespoon vital wheat gluten and top with bread flour for each cup called for. My calcuations say this would make the protein 14-14.5% or equivilant to high gluten flour. I'm not sure this is correct and was wondering if any one else had tried this and what proportions they use. I just made some bagels this way and they turned out very nicely. Thanks Kevin in Oregon --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.8 --------------- From: "Bev Carney" Subject: food scales Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 12:39:24 -0600 I have used the Soehlne basic digital model (around $50) for a couple of years and I love it. The maximum it will weigh is 4 lbs, but I find that adequate. It has an easy tare feature and will weigh both ounces and grams. For ounces, it reads in the tenths of an ounce which I find more convenient than the 1/4 and 1/3 ounces some other machines use. While I have a non-digital scale stored in the basement, I find the digital one quicker and easier to use. My non-digital one doesn't have a tare feature though and that makes a big difference. Weighing ingredients seems to us to be a real time saver: I regularly use it for flour and sugar and cocoa. I use a bread machine and am working towards 100% whole wheat. Now I'm using 7 ounces wheat and 2 ounces white per loaf and having a scale makes this easier. I particularly like it for brown sugar - you don't have to pack the cup, just weigh the proper amount. I would highly recommend a scale. ________________________________________________________ 1stUp.com - Free the Web Get your free Internet access at http://www.1stUp.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.9 --------------- From: TheGuamTarheels@webtv.net (The Ol' Tarheel) Subject: Monti's Roman Bread Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 12:40:21 -0500 (EST) My wife and I are getting together with children and grandchildren at my eldest son's home for Thanksgiving and I have been "instructed" to bring the bread. My eldest daughter said, "Make it Monti's Roman bread, dad." This is my adaptation of a recipe that I found some years ago. It came from Monti's La Casa Vieja in Tempe, Arizona. The owner, Leonard Monti, said his parents brought this recipe from Italy nearly 60 years ago. So, here it is; my Thanksgiving gift to all of you... MONTI'S ROMAN BREAD (with adaptations by the Tarheel Baker) 2 cups all-purpose unbleached flour 2 cups bread flour 1 tablespoon sugar 1 tablespoon instant yeast pinch ascorbic acid (optional) 1/2 medium onion, finely chopped 2 teaspoons sea salt 2 tablespoons dried rosemary 1-1/2 cups warm water Combine flours, sugar, yeast, ascorbic acid, onion, sea salt, and rosemary, and mix thoroughly. Stir in water with a wooden spoon. Turn out on a lightly floured work surface and knead until smooth (about ten minutes). Place dough in an oiled (olive oil, please) bowl, cover, and let rise until doubled, about one hour. Turn out on a lightly floured work surface, knead lightly, and form into a boule. Place dough on a lightly oiled (olive oil, please) baking sheet and let rise until doubled, about 30 minutes. Preheat oven (with a baking stone inside if you have one) to 400F. Spray top of loaf with lightly with water and sprinkle with coarse salt and more dried rosemary. Bake until the top is lightly browned and the internal temperature (taken with an instant thermometer) reaches 190F, about 20 to 25 minutes. Let cool on a rack at least 45 minutes before slicing (if you can). Happy Thanksgiving, y'all. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.10 --------------- From: Jane T Helwig Subject: Big mixers Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 14:09:13 -0500 I'm a new member to the list and am delighted to have found it. In reply to Don's question about heavy-duty mixers. . . After I burnt out 2 Kitchen-Aids trying to knead whole-wheat dough, I got a Bosch mixer in 1981 that I used several times weekly until 1992. I loaded it all the way up--my everyday 2/3 whole wheat, 1/3 white flour recipe calls for 7 1/2 cups of liquid, and the Bosch did a wonderful job. I bought a new and apparently identical Bosch in 1996. However, I had trouble with dough working its way up into the central column of the bowl, where some inner machinery is. (The way we found this was a very bad smell which we traced to the mixer bowl.) I had never had this trouble with my first Bosch. After several conversations with the Bosch people and King Arthur (where I had gotten the new Bosch) it turned out Bosch had modified the machine in some way so that it was possible that the dough could get up inside the center. The Bosch person I spoke with admitted they were aware of the problem but said that fixing it wasn't a priority. Remember, this conversation was in 1996 and maybe by now it has been fixed. So then I got a Magic Mill DLX-2000 which I have been using at least weekly and very happily since 1996. It does beautifully with my basic whole wheat-white recipe that uses 7 1/2 cups of liquid, producing 5 large loaves. It is great for other typical mixer duties including my husband's double or triple recipes of chocolate chip cookies for the field hockey team. The whisk works well for egg whites. It comes with a blender that also functions well, although you have to tip over the mixer to attach the blender, unlike the Bosch which accepts the mixer right side up. I also have been using the Magic Mill grain mill since 1981 and wouldn't be without it. Hate the high-pitched jet engine whine, but it doesn't last but a few seconds. Good luck, Don! --Jane Helwig, Franktown, VA --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.11 --------------- From: "Alan Jackson" Subject: Re: Ultimate Dispener Prob Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 16:02:00 -0600 On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 07:09:14 -0800 Bob Snelgrove wrote: > > Reggie, > > Have you actually tried ingredients in the dispenser? It sounds like it > is opening but needs the weight of the ingredients to help it open fully? > > [[Reggie says "yes".]] > > When it opens, can you move or swing it freely without binding? > > [[ Reggie says "No, it binds. The question is what to oil it with that > won't burn or poison the bread." ]] I'd try olive oil. It is actually a rather good lubricating oil, according to my CRC "Rubber Bible". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Alan K. Jackson | To see a World in a Grain of Sand | | alan@ajackson.org | And a Heaven in a Wild Flower, | | www.ajackson.org | Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand | | Houston, Texas | And Eternity in an hour. - Blake | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.12 --------------- From: "Alan Jackson" Subject: Re: Ultra Fine Grind vs Regular Grind Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 16:15:44 -0600 On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:00:24 -0800 "Rusty Burlew" wrote: > > I am an agronomist, also familiar with particle sizes in soil. I was amazed > to learn how many geophysicists and hydrologists bake bread, and were > willing to respond to this particular subject. Is there something about > playing with flour and water that is very similar to playing with dirt and > water? It's fascinating! I always say that I enjoy cooking because it's just like Chem lab except that you get to eat the results of the experiments. I actually have read a couple of books on food science. I think cooking can tie in well with many occupations - for scientists cooking is an experimental science, for artists food is just another medium for creating artworks. Engineers probably will actually follow the directions 8-). -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Alan K. Jackson | To see a World in a Grain of Sand | | alan@ajackson.org | And a Heaven in a Wild Flower, | | www.ajackson.org | Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand | | Houston, Texas | And Eternity in an hour. - Blake | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.13 --------------- From: "L. Hyson" Subject: NYC Hard Rolls Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 00:52:14 -0500 For: Werner Gansz There is a recipe for Vienna Rolls aka Kaiser Rolls in "Secrets of a Jewish Baker" by George Greenstein, who is a retired baker from Long Island, NY. I have never made them but have never had a bad result from many of his other recipes. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.14 --------------- From: "Griffin Software" Subject: pretzil bread Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 07:21:57 -0600 Pretzel bread I went to a Christmas fair yesterday and there was a lady there selling what she called pretzel bread. It was about 1 1/2 inch in diameter and 3 to 4 inches long. Actually about the size of a Twinkie. It had a nice crust not real hard and the dough was a bit on the chewy side. Had lots of salt and garlic. It was really quite nice. Anyone have a recipe for something like this?? It would be a great appetizer. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.15 --------------- From: "dvdkng1958" Subject: Oster Bread Machine Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 21:16:35 -0600 After reading Nancy Zimbalist's problem with her Oster Bread Machine, I could help but share mine. Last year I received mine as a christmas gift. and after begging my Mom not to jam a knife into it to release the loaf, she did anyway. To make a long story short, Oster agreed to replace my pan for free since the unit was near new. I waited a couple of weeks and called back. They gave me a UPS tracking number; I called UPS, but they had no record and told me that the shipper will give out numbers in advance of shipping. That was a year ago. I never received the pan. My unit works fine but like Nancy said what about when I need a replacement? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.16 --------------- From: "Erin Nesmith" Subject: new cookbooks Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 14:32:03 -0600 Hello, I've recently added two new cookbooks to my collection and they're both great. The first is the King Arthur Flour 200th Anniversary Cookbook. It is well written, well organized, and has already helped me resolve a problem I was having with another recipe. It explains a lot without being preachy. If you don't have one already, make space on your shelf and give Santa some big hints, because it will be one of those cookbooks that will be the backbone of your collection. The other is the second Father Dominic book (Breaking Bread 2), the companion volume to this season's public television series of the same name. I like his relaxed, encouraging approach and every recipe that I've tried has been a winner. You can get it through his website, www.breaking-bread.com Happy baking, Erin --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.17 --------------- From: Paula Countryman Subject: Re: KA Mixer Problem Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:17:55 -0800 >I'm presently considering the Kenwood KM800, the Magic Mill DLX-2000, and >the Bosch. I would like to hear from anyone who has had experience with >these or any other machines that they would recommend for dough >kneading. Earlier this summer I went through a similar dilemma, having used my KA for bread baking the last two years or so. I ran into little difficulties until I moved from a three cup recipe to a 6 cup. Although my machine didn't die it sounded like it was on it's last leg and had a very nasty habit of moving all over the counter and onto the floor :-( thus beginning my search for a new machine. Initially I was looking to replace the KA altogether so I tried out the Kenwood M800 from Cooking.com. Unfortunately my machine arrived slightly damaged with scratches and a cracked cover, though I was able to try it out for a couple of weeks while awaiting another mixer. There are both things I liked and disliked about the Kenwood. Overall it made terrific whole grain bread, the most beautiful loaves I've ever turned out. I use exclusively whole grains in my baking so this was significant to me. The bowl capacity was more than adequate for my needs as I usually make no more than two loaves at a time, though I had no problem with the 9 C recipe I tried in the Kenwood. I also was able to mix up small amounts of ingredients thoroughly which was a concern I had about larger machines like the MM and Bosch. The drawbacks were the loudness of the Kenwood and the length of time it took to get my whole wheat dough to develop, upwards of 20 minutes on a 6 C recipe. Since I can knead up my own 6 C recipe in that amount of time, I thought a machine should do better! After quite a few trials with the Kenwood, I decided to try out the Magic Mill DLX as I felt it was really designed with bread making in mind, something I didn't believe about the Kenwood. I am sure the Kenwood would hold up over time, just not as long as a Magic Mill. This is my personal very subjective opinion of course. I've had the MM since early August and am very happy with it. I decided to keep my KA as it still works, just not for bread. I've made cookies in the MM with no problems and will further test this out in the coming baking weeks. I make whole wheat bread on a twice-weekly basis and am happy with the results. The machine is quiet and very easy to clean. I do enjoy being able to see into the top of the bowl quite easily as it's kneading. It is a different way of kneading than the other machines I was used to and this took me some time to learn - but I've never had to worry about it walking off the counter!! If you have more questions, please let me know. I never considered a Bosch as I didn't have the counter space and didn't need a blender. I also looked briefly at the larger KA that's newer on the market, but having the other KA problems I really wanted to try something else. hope this helps, paula countryman --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.18 --------------- From: "dvdkng1958" Subject: Using Fresh Milk Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 18:48:29 -0600 Does anyone have a formula for substituting fresh milk for non fat dry milk in bread machine recipes? I usually don't buy non fat dry milk. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.19 --------------- From: "Carolyn Hollenbeck" Subject: mixers Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 21:01:04 -0500 To Dan B. and others: I am also considering a new mixer and have been investigating both Kenwood and Magic Mill. Presently I also have a KitchenAid which has served me well. I spoke to the customer service dept. At The Baker's Catalogue and was advised that the Magic Mill is great for bread making but is not as proficient at producing other baked goods as is the Kenwood. The Kenwood will also handle large or small quantities. I am still undecided and am looking forward to receiving the input of contributors. Hope Thanksgiving is enjoyed by all! Carolyn --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.20 --------------- From: ARanish@aol.com Subject: Oven for baking Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 11:25:13 EST I have been reading this digest for several months and have found it very interesting. Now I have a question. I am planning to buy a new gas oven soon. I have noticed that some ovens on the market now have the possibility of being used as convection ovens. I am intrigued by this possibility as I have read somewhere that convection ovens are good for baking. I bake most of my own bread and am particularly fond of baking hearth breads - such as sourdough breads- on a baking stone. Has anyone had experience with a gas oven that can be used as a convection oven as well as a "regular" oven? Would you recommend it? Any advice on the purchase of a new stove- oven would be appreciated. I know I want it to be gas,have at least one "extra strength" burner, and be 30" wide (can't fit in anything wider.) I will also probably have to buy a new fan for over the stove if anybody has advice on that. Thank you. Ann --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.21 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Accuracy Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 11:01:11 EST For Mary B - weighing ingredients and accuracy. Weighing ingredients (liquid or dry) is not only more accurate but more repeatable than cup measures but is that important in the context of breadbaking? If you make a bread recipe on 2 separate occasions, weighing your ingredients with absolute precision, there will still be differences in the dough due to several variables, some of which are - Differences between batches of nominally identical flour e.g. gluten content, moisture content, fineness of grind, age. Atmospheric temperature, pressure and, most important, humidity. Rising times - two successive batches of the same recipe seldom rise in exactly equal time and a long rise will give a different flavour and texture from a short rise. Oven temperature - unless you have a digitally controlled oven it is difficult to repeat an oven setting within a variation of 5 degees C and many oven thermostats will cycle around a range of temperatures of 20 - 25 or even 30 C. The other breadbakers out there can doubtless list other variables but the important thing to recognise is that these inevitable variations affect the character of the dough MUCH more (an order of magnitude) than a difference of, for example, .05 ounces of flour so such an accuracy is superfluous for breadbaking (for all cookery in my opinion) and not worth paying extra to obtain. The weight/cups argument often arouses strong feelings in cooks and I'm looking forward to seeing other list members' contributions. John Wright Yorkshire, England --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.22 --------------- From: SloSherri@aol.com Subject: measuring by weight Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:34:25 EST > I'm thinking of getting a new kitchen scale. > > Right now I have an old scale that I use mainly for pasta and potatoes, > but I'd like to try baking by weight, and I'll need something more accurate. > > What are the advantages and disadvantages of measuring dry and wet > ingredients by weight? Mary, I've been measuring weight for years now, and I love it. Yes, it DOES speed up baking, if you think of it this way: to bake bread (or a cake, etc.), you need to fluff up your flour to avoid over-packing your measurement, spoon it into the cup, level it off, dump, and move on. With a scale, you put any bowl on the scale, hit the tare button (yes, a tare button is invaluable), so that the scale zeroes out, and begin dumping in flour (which weights approximately 4 1/4 ounces per cup). If you were to add sugar next, you could again hit the tare button, and add sugar (which has a different weight, btw). Anyway, I think it's very quick, and I like the accuracy. I don't think it really matters if you get one that is incredibly accurate, as is the one that you mentioned (I believe it gets down to .05/ounce). I have an older scale I got from KA that measures to within .2 ounce, and it appears to work fine. One thing I WILL say, though, is that the design on my older scale, which is a Termaillon, is a bit flawed. If you have a large bowl on the scale, it can block the viewing of the weight so that you have to bend over to peer at the read-out. I have seen scales recently that seem to have solved that problem by having the read-out in an area that cannot be blocked by the bowl. I've had my scale for about six or seven years, and haven't even had to change the battery. It works fine, and was an excellent investment. Sherri --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.23 --------------- From: SloSherri@aol.com Subject: vegetarian bread loaf weight Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:40:03 EST <> Ellen, I've never baked with a bread machine, but I believe you are thinking that three cups of flour equals 24 ounces, or 1 1/2 pounds, because there are 8 ounces in a cup. Flour weighs only 4 1/4 ounces per cup, so that would not necessarily translate into a 1 1/2 pound loaf, although since I don't bake with bread machines, I may be completely off base. Anyway, 8 ounces/cup is liquid measure, and solids all measure differently (i.e., sugar weighs more than flour, but less than water, per cup). Sherri --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.24 --------------- From: SloSherri@aol.com Subject: heavy-duty mixers Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:52:17 EST <> Don, Well, I'd hoped to have something more definitive, but I've searched the house looking through my cooking magazines and cannot recall WHERE I read about the new Cuisinart. I know there are several people here on this list that use the Cuisinart for bread kneading, although I never have. Wherever it is that I read a review of the new machine, I do recall that there is a very heavy-duty model that has just come out with, evidently, an improved mechanism for kneading and an improved dough blade. As I cannot find the article anywhere (I could have SWORN I read it in Cook's Illustrated, but it's not there), I am really not much help here, except that I thought you might want to at least check into the new model. I know it would not occur to me to consider a food processor when searching for a heavy-duty mixer for bread, but the article I read was very intriguing. Sherri <----- Who has an OLD KA mixer from (thank goodness) the Hobart years --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.25 --------------- From: "Joni Repasch" Subject: Cinnamon Chips: 100-66.2 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:47:40 -0800 >From: Joan at NorthStarKennels at aol.com >Subject: Where can I get cinnamon chips? >Can you advise as to where to get cinnamon chips? Can't find them anywhere, >KA catalogue doesn't seem to have them, either. >Joan King Arthur Flours in offering these chips in their December catelogue. Check page 33 on the left side of the page about 3/4 of the way down. Sorry to be so late in responding. Been too busy to post much recently, joni repasch --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.26 --------------- From: Steve Hayden Subject: Breadman Ultimate Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 13:49:55 -0500 < >> Wrote: << I've been baking my bread for many years by hand. A couple months ago I purchased a Breadman Ultimate. The bread comes out very satisfactory and sure takes the work out of baking bread. I do have a question. The crust comes out rather light even with the dark crust setting. Is there a way to get the crust darker? Today I added 7 minutes to the baking time and it still wasn't dark enough. The bread otherwise is very good. Any suggestions? >> I have just the opposite problem. I have "The Bread Machine" by Welbilt. This is my second machine, my first being a DAK. The Welbilt has no color control. If I use one tablespoon of sugar in a 1 1/2 pound loaf the crust is very dark. If I use more 3-tablespoons, I have to trim the crust before eating the bread. I am looking for a Breadman Ultimate. I have only be able to find it on the WEB at about $230. That seems a lot. [[Direct from Breadman for $169 on the www.breadman.com site ... Reggie]] Steve Steve Hayden Wright State University steve.hayden@wright.edu Electronics Shop (937) 775-2554 (voice) 077 Brehm Lab (937) 775-3807 (fax) 3640 Col Glenn Hwy www.eshop.wright.edu Dayton OH 45435 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.27 --------------- From: "Werner Gansz" Subject: Kaiser Rolls Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:25:53 -0500 Kaisersemml Kaiser Rolls Recipe paraphrased from "The Village Baker", by Joe Ortiz The Sponge 1 1/2 tsp active dry yeast 1/4 cup warm water 2 tsp sugar 1/2 tsp malt extract or honey 1/2 cup milk, scalded and allowed to cool to warm 1 1/2 cups all-purpose flour 1/2 cup cool water Proof the yeast in the warm water; dissolve the sugar and malt extract in the warm milk. Mix yeast mixture, milk mixture and flour and cool water together until smooth. Set covered in warm place for 2 hours. The Dough 1 1/2 tsp salt 1 cup all purpose flour + extra flour as required all of the sponge poppy seeds or other toppings Mix salt with flour and add to the sponge by handfuls while mixing. Hold back 1/4 cup flour for kneading. Mix for 10 minutes; then knead on a board with remaining flour until soft and satiny in texture. It may take up to 1/2 cup more flour to get proper texture. (It has been my experience that without the extra flour the dough is too wet to be shaped later.) Cover and let rise in a warm place until doubled. Divide dough into 6 pieces, roll each piece into a tight ball and let rest, covered, for 15 minutes. One at time, flatten each ball into a disk and fold into the classic "petal" or "pinwheel" pattern. Hold the disk in the center with one thumb, grab the outer edge between the thumb and index fingers of the other hand and pull outward slightly, then fold over the disk to the middle and hold the folded piece down with the thumb. Seal the fold with heel of the free hand. Rotate the disk 90F and stretch and fold again, capturing the fold under the thumb. Keep going around 4 or 5 times total until the top of the roll looks like a pinwheel. Place each folded roll on a cookie sheet lined with parchment paper. Leave plenty of room for rolls to expand in diameter. Brush with vegetable oil and cover with another sheet of parchment paper, then another cookie sheet, then a cast iron skillet. Let rise (actually expand in diameter) for 35 to 40 minutes. Preheat oven to 450F. Remove skillet and top layer of parchment paper and spray rolls with water; then sprinkle on toppings. Use water spray in oven before and during baking (or uses whatever steam method you use to create crusty breads). Bake for 20 minutes. (I've tried this recipe several times and each time the rolls come out dense, almost bagel-like. NY Hard Rolls should be light in texture with a chewy crust and should pull apart in sections formed by the petals. Even with relatively stiff dough the folded detail is lost during final rise under the weight._ Werner --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n074.28 --------------- From: NorthStarKennels@aol.com Subject: Stone Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 07:03:48 EST Please help---I just bought a KA baking stone and lost the directions for seasoning it. Can anyone tell ne how to do it so I can use it? Thanks. Joan --------------- END bread-bakers.v100.n074 --------------- -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v100.n075 -------------- 001 - NorthStarKennels@aol.com - Cinnamon chip loaf 002 - "Joni Repasch" Subject: Jane Koca's Request BBD 100-073 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:33:36 -0800 NOTE TO THE BBD: Since I submitted the Semolina Bread Recipes several weeks ago I am deleting that recipe in this post. >Subject: BBD 100-073 bread baking with kids >Date: Monday, November 20, 2000 11:17 PM Hello, Jane Koca I'm responding to your request in the BBD about baking bread with young ones. How strange I should see this question given the wonderful experience I had last week with my three grandchildren, the granddaughter age 11, and two grandsons, ages 10 and 7. The grandchildren were visiting here in Northern Virginia while their mother recouped from a serious operation she underwent in September. Kris and the grands now live in AZ so the 2 months away from home not so easy for them. I had not had the pleasure of seeing them in 4 years AND was unsure if I would be able to cope with them for more than a few hours at a time. For about 3 weeks I helped home-school at least one and sometimes all three.....Talk about a challenge! The 7 year old was spending the day with me last week and I thought that after a full morning of studies he might like to do something with me in the kitchen. I suggested he and I make bread and he was all for it. You should know in advance I'm not a very patient person, particularly in my kitchen. Needless to say, I was somewhat dubious about this little exercise. To my surprise we had a grand time. The other two showed up while we were still in the mixing stage but I allowed the little one to more less run the show. I chose a very simple yeast recipe which I am sending to you in this post. First we got out all of the measuring spoons and cups.....also the scale to weigh the flour. Zach was asked to read the recipe with a little help from "Mama Joni". He then measured each of the ingredients and poured them into separate bowls. In a simple manner I explained why each of the ingredients was important to the finished product and surprisingly Zach asked some very interesting questions about such things as the reaction of yeast to water. Since I use a KitchenAid Mixer to mix and knead the dough, Zach was allowed to do most of the dumping and mixing. By this time sister and brother arrived so we all got into the mix, so-to-speak and had a jolly ole time. Fortunately, the recipe that follows is quicker than most. Although it does require one rise and one proof, neither takes a very long time. One thing I've learned the last two months: It's not so very important that what I cook be perfect; what's important is the shared experience one derives from imparting your knowledge with those too young to question everything you say. Don't get me wrong, all three had questions about this bread baking as well as other cooking we did together, but they were very receptive to what I had to offer. Hope your experience with your young ladies is as rewarding as mine with my precious grands. I was truly blessed. My only advice from a 61 year-old: chill out and have fun! Believe me when I say your contribution to these young ladies will fill your heart with much joy. Please note: I submitted this recipe to the BBD several months ago, so you might have it in your collection....but here's the rerun. (Semolina Bread) [[http://www.bread-bakers.com/archives/digests/v100n062.txt ... Reggie]] joni repasch --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n075.3 --------------- From: "Lorna Noble" Subject: Re: KitchenAid replacements Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:29:42 +0000 >Folks, I need your help. A little over two years ago I purchased a >KitchenAid 4 1/2 quart mixer for the purpose of dough kneading. >Anyhow, on to my present dilemma. I want to buy a heavy duty dough >kneading machine. At this time cost is not an issue. >I'm presently considering the Kenwood KM800, the Magic Mill DLX-2000, and >the Bosch. Hi Don, We have a Kenwood 230. It's about 8 years old and still going strong. It copes with 3lb of bread flour in a mix, and is still OK with a single batch of pizza dough (8oz). The machine is 650 watts and has the option of all sorts of other useful gadgets. I don't have the strength to knead bread, and when I'm making sourdough I can't get it off my fingers, so it's a real plus. Hope that's of some use. -- Lorna Noble Strathbungo Glasgow Scotland --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n075.4 --------------- From: "Ellen C." Subject: Dot's Beer Bread Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:36:11 -0500 Jessica Biscuit's email newsletter featured At Grandmother's Table, a new book of old family recipes. I thought this bread sounded great. I could have used this last night when I wanted a last minute bread. Next time... Ellen * Exported from MasterCook Mac * Dot's Beer Bread Recipe By : At Grandmother's Table Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads: Quick & Muffins Whole Grain & Cereal Breads Yeast Free Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1/2 cup raw sunflower seeds -- (optional) - or cooked rye grain - or cooked oatmeal 2 1/2 cups all-purpose flour 2 1/2 teaspoons baking powder 1/2 teaspoon baking soda 1/2 teaspoon salt 1/2 cup whole wheat flour 1/2 cup soy flour 1/4 cup sugar 1/4 cup molasses 1 can beer -- (12-ounce) "To dry ingredients, you may add 1/2 cup raw sunflower seeds, or 1/2 cup cooked rye, or 1/2 cup cooked oatmeal, or anything else that won't absorb much liquid. Mix all ingredients well (I usually mix the dry ones first). Put into greased loaf pan. Bake about an hour at 400. Test for doneness with wooden toothpick - it often looks done when it isn't. You can play with this recipe, so long as you keep the 2 1/2 cups of flour (and the baking powder and soda) and the beer constant. If you want it less sweet, cut down on the sugar. The smaller portions of flour may be varied as you wish: 1 cup soy, no whole wheat; all whole wheat; or rye can be put in instead. Standard loaf pan is OK. If you can find a smaller one, you'll get a little better shaped loaf, but the quality of the bread is the same. If you want to wait, I'll bring you an extra loaf pan at Thanksgiving." At Grandmother's Table: Women Write about Food, Life, and the Enduring Bond Between Grandmothers and Granddaughters Edited by Ellen Perry Berkeley (Fairview Press: 2000) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Per serving: 2498 Calories; 49g Fat (18% calories from fat); 72g Protein; 433g Carbohydrate; 0mg Cholesterol; 2668mg Sodium Food Exchanges: 20 Starch/Bread; 3 1/2 Lean Meat; 3 1/2 Fruit; 7 Fat; 7 Other Carbohydrates NOTES : More than food, my grandmother (Dortha Juanita Gans Thomas 1907-1988) craved the conversation and sense of connection that came with company. She had little patience for cooking, and little confidence in her abilities in the kitchen. The easier a dish was to cook, the better: It was more likely to turn out well, and she was able to move more quickly into the living room where the others were sitting and talking. Dot's beer bread is healthful and easy, a favorite recipe by all accounts. And a family story tells how Dot - A Church of the Brethren teetotaler - endured embarrassment each time she purchased the necessary beer. The recipe is printed just as it appears on the blue recipe card my grandmother gave to my aunt. Nutr. Assoc. : 1452 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 _____ --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v100.n075.5 --------------- From: "Joni Repasch" Subject: Fw: BBD 100-073 re: Type of Yeast used in Jewish Rye Bread & Bagels Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:20:13 -0800 Lorna Noble asked about the yeast that I use for Rose Levy Beranbaum's Bagels. << I loved the story, and the recipes look great. However, I use yeast which doesn't require proving when making bread (getting fresh is impossible, and dried is less reliable), and wondered why you insist on dry/fresh instead of instant-bake? Lorna Noble, Strathbungo, Glasgow, Scotland >> I probable use the same type of yeast you do, INSTANT. The recipe I submitted to the list was a direct steal from the Washington Post Newspaper. I did not write the article or develop the recipe. I thought the article so interesting that perhaps everyone on the list would like to at least one of the recipes. As a matter of fact I've been so busy the last three months with grandchildren visiting from AZ I've had almost no time to either read or respond to much e-mail. I'm now just getting around to reading all the BBD posts since the middle of September. Actually I sent the article to Reggie and asked her to post it to the BBD if she thought it would be appropriate. If I were you I'd go right ahead and use whatever yeast you currently have on hand. I use instant yeast for all of my bread baking and have never been disappointed. I also noted that you get frustrated with all the bread machine recipes sent to the list. I do also as I use either my KitchenAid to mix and knead my breads or the two hands I was born with. You might want to hear from from others on the list before taking my advice. I just wing it, meaning I follow the ingredients in a bread machine recipe, mix and knead, and bake it as I normally would. Best to you across the Atlantic, joni repasch from Arlington, Virginia, USA. [[Jeff says to look for normal-rise instead of rapid-rise/bread machine dried or instant yeast.]] --------------- END bread-bakers.v100.n075 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2000 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved