Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:39:33 -0700 (MST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v102.n003 -------------- 001 - Brianjwoody@aol.com - Re: Digest bread-bakers.v102.n002 002 - Ellen - Heavy Duty Mixers 004 - Epwerth15@aol.com - Misting or steaming your home oven 005 - Tom Reingold > From: John Prescott Warning! It seems the US bread machines (and i guess, european ones) have their internal clocks synchronised to the 60 hz supply. That means the clock runs slow compared to real time when using 50Hz. I am baking happily despite this problem, but you do need to be careful on things like Crust selection - light probably is nearer medium etc. For 3 or 4 hour programmes it is a pretty minor problem. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n003.2 --------------- From: Ellen Subject: re: proofing baskets Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 08:13:49 -0500 I found that rice flour used to flour the brotforms/bannetons makes the bread easy to remove. When I first got mine, I rice floured them heavily the first 2 or 3 times I used them and now they are pretty much maintenance free :-)) After I remove the bread, I let the baskets sit out to "dry" and then I just store them in a plastic bag which is *not* zipped up or closed airtight -- keeps dust off them and not having them airtight keeps them from molding. Thru experimentation I did find that using the heavy linen as a liner for the cheap baskets and also as a couche makes quite a difference over using canvas and/or cotton towels. You don't have to be a seamstress or do anything fancy for this: I just cut some squares of linen large enough to fit in the baskets, the corner points of the linen stick up, the fit of the linen into the basket has some lumps, when the bread oven-springs the slight imperfections in shape vanish. I had cut off the sticking up corners of the linen on a couple of those squares until I realized that I should leave them: they hold the plastic wrap away from the bread surface while the bread is slowly rising in the fridge :-)) After I using a linen liner or couche, I dust off the excess flour, let it air dry, brush off again and then fold and put in an open-ended plastic bag ... never had a critter or mold or anything else problem. I make larger loaves in the brotforms/bannetons and small boules (individual soup bowl sized) in cheap baskets lined with linen. The characteristic pattern of the basket on the larger loaves while not adding anything to the taste certainly does add to the esthetics. I got mine at the SFBI someone else mentioned in this digest; the price was excellent. Also got the linen there. I hope to get some pics up on my website soon. I found rice flour at a local Asian market. Ellen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n003.3 --------------- From: Lisa Subject: Heavy Duty Mixers Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 07:26:52 -0800 (PST) Margaret asked: "Can someone tell me what the best heavy duty mixer is today? I can't find the newletters that discuss that. I just remember that the current version of the KA that I use is not as good. Is the bigger KA better? My daughter-in-law would like to get a bigger machine and I promised to research it through all of you." Margaret, I have the 6qt. professional Kitchenaid (525 watts) and I love it! I looked and looked for the best price and trying to figure out which model I wanted - finally settled on this one a couple years ago and never looked back. There are some others that have a lot of very good buzz right now though. One of the reason I like the KA is that it has all metal parts and their reputation precedes them. I think this thing will probably outlive me! Here is a site that you can check out the other "hot" mixers right now. www.breadmachinedigest.com www.healthforyouministry.com Lisa in CA --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n003.4 --------------- From: Epwerth15@aol.com Subject: Misting or steaming your home oven Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:40:06 EST I've found the best method is to put an old pan (with sides) on the bottom shelf of the oven while its preheating. When you put the bread in to bake, pout about a cup of BOILING water in that pan and shut the door. You'll get wonderful steam without lowering the oven temperature or opening the oven door repeatedly. Evie Werthmann --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n003.5 --------------- From: Tom Reingold Subject: need rice bread recipe Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:44:26 -0500 My girlfriend has troubles digesting gluten, so she doesn't eat wheat or oats. She eats rice bread which she can get from the health food store. But I'd love to be able to bake bread that she can eat. So I'd like a recipe for bread that uses rice flour. The ones I've found through web searches have some pretty weird ingredients. I guess since rice flour has little or no gluten, it needs an emulsifier to give the dough the proper texture. Can anyone help? Thanks! Tom Reingold tommy@whatexit.org Edison, NJ --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n003.6 --------------- From: "Mike Avery" Subject: Bannetons, again Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:13:54 -0700 Frank Yuhasz (also known as Carolyn) wrote: > With all due respect, the recent posts about banneton include too much > whining about the relative cost of these special dough-rising baskets. > Surely some of the 5000+ folks that subscribe to this list care about > good bread and feel the same as I do. Though in some instances it > might be admirable to "make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" but to > make an imitation is NOT the same as the genuine article. Yes, you > COULD proof a rustic loaf in a cheap China-made basket lined with > unwashable fabric of unknown origin, or line an ordinary bowl with a > linen dish towel, but it won't be the same. The characteristic > imprint made by the beautiful craftsmanship of an Austrian-made > brotformen cannot be duplicated by these cut-rate means. You get what > you pay for! Using good tools and caring for them properly add joy to > the creative process of building extraordinary bread. In the big > picture, a $25,000 car or a $250,000 home is expensive. A $25 banneton > is not. Sadly, in today's market a $25,000 car is not considered expensive. It's middle of the road. And the same is becoming true in many markets for houses... $250,000 is rapidly becoming a "starter home" in the Denver area. But, to bread. There is a real difference between a brotform and a banneton. A brotform isn't lined. It's a basket of reed, and it is supposed to impart its pattern to the bread. A banneton is lined. And it isn't supposed to impart a pattern on the bread. Personally, I see no reason to pay $25.00, or more, for one. Is the costplus basket lined with fabric of unknown origin? Yes. But how much do you know about the origin of any fabric you use? Not much. Where did the fabric come from? Was the the field where the flax or cotton was grown organic? Was the fabric exposed to toxic materials? Who knows? Who can find out? Was the fabric in the Austrian product really made in Austria, or was it sub-contracted to someone in Taiwan? You just don't know. If you are baking reasonable sized loaves of bread, you'll need 4 or so baskets. You can find them unlined at $0.39 at a restaurant supply house, lined for $4.99 at cost plus, or in a nicer version at a baking supply house for $25.00. I have no reason to believe the bread cares. I do know it doesn't seem to care when I use a plain basket with a floured tea-towel in it instead of the cost-plus basket. I can spend the $80.00 difference on something that matters to me, whether that is several brotformen, or several sacks of flour. Mike -- Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com ICQ: 16241692 AOL IM: MAvery81230 * Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way * Recently Seen On A Bumper Sticker Near Your Home: Give me ambiguity or give me something else. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n003.7 --------------- From: "Mike Avery" Subject: The rise and fall of the third loaf Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:16:12 -0700 Sloganrcb@cs.com wrote: > Help!!! I make this fab bread and it rises picture perfect and then > it goes in the oven and falls - what??? > How do I get to picture perfect through the whole process??? Usually this means you allowed the dough to over-rise. If you let this happen, it becomes fragile and any little thing will deflate it. Next time, put it into the oven a bit sooner. Mike --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n003.8 --------------- From: "Pedro S. Arellano III" Subject: The "yeast question" Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:19:51 -0600 Cheryl asked if she can use instant instead of active dry yeast. The truth is the world will not come to an end, well actually, it might but it wouldn't be your fault. All that will happen is that your bread might rise a little faster. Not the end of the world, right? Why did I say "might?" Well technically speaking instant should be faster but if you put instant yeast in water at 80 degrees it will rise much slower than an active dry yeast with water at 110 degrees. So in my very humble uneducated opinion I don't think the difference is so big as to warrant anxiety. I use Active dry yeast all the time. Because I can get it dirt cheap at my local coop. I pay literally less than 1/4 what I paid for jarred grocery store yeast. If I am very, very rushed to make some bread--. Promise not to tell anyone? Sometimes I put 2 Tb. in one loaf of bread. Shhhhh this has got to stay a secret. If the BBD found out they might take away my license to bake bread at home :-) Just kidding. Seriously, you can switch between yeast and even fudge with yeast amounts within reason (don't put 1/2 cup in a loaf, then something might seriously explode)without cataclysmic results. Well, there it is, my very long winded answer to a short and succinct question. Sorry. Fellow Bread Baking Fiend, Pedro --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n003.9 --------------- From: "MARGARET CLARK" Subject: Re: Digest bread-bakers.v102.n002 Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:52:18 -0700 I have all the information I needed on the proofing baskets and I thank everyone completely. I've found them in several different places, none isover $24.95 which I don't think is exorbitant in price. I appreciate everyone's information and interest. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n003.10 --------------- From: "Greg Carpenter" Subject: Brotformen and Bannetons Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 15:06:38 -0500 Much discussion about brotforms and bannetons of late. I'm glad people are using them. Not long ago they were all but unheard of in this country. Someone on the list mentioned that brotforms are used merely to impart a look to a loaf of bread. The look is only one of the benefits. A major advantage of using brotforms and bannetons is that they allow you to use wetter dough and still get a tall loaf. The wet dough is supported by the basket as it proofs. If given a long, slow proof, the dough builds enough strength to hold its shape when removed. Such a loaf cannot be proofed on a baking sheet; it will spread out too much. One can proof such a dough in a "couche" of proofing canvas, but the forms are easier to handle. The porosity of a good form also allows some air to get to the crust, slightly drying it as the loaf rises (I question the effectiveness of plastic brotforms because they don't breath. Neither will a cloth-lined bowl.) This "pre-crust" also helps support the loaf after it is removed from the basket, while it is being scored and loaded into the oven. By using a form one can produce a loaf with that elusive combination of crisp crust and moist, open crumb. One should choose the style of mold to complement the crust desired. Bannetons (the canvas-lined baskets) leave a nice, smooth crust with a matte finish and will release more easily than brotforms (the coiled wood baskets). Brotforms impart more texture to the crust but require more care when used with wet dough. As for cost; Some gourmet and catalog stores are charging obscene prices for low quality baskets. San Francisco Baking Institute has very good prices and their reputation leads me to believe that their quality is good. One can't easily make wooden brotforms at home, but I heartily believe that commercially available bannetons (the cloth lined baskets) can be improved upon if one wants to take further control of their baking. One can choose their own materials (willow baskets and untreated, organic cotton duck, hemp canvas or linen work well) and choose the basket to their preferred shape and size. Far from cheapening the experience, I believe making one's own bannetons gives a sense of satisfaction to the baker every time it is used. I'm certainly proud of mine (anybody notice that?). When purchasing bannetons, don't make the mistake of confusing an elevated price with elevated quality. There are some really cheap ones out there with outrageous price tags. Don't support vendors that sell image over substance. Buy from a reputable vendor that specializes in baking and bakery equipment (such as SFBI or King Arthur) or make your own, which is really the more traditional way of doing it. In Search of the Tall Crusty Loaf, Greg Carpenter Petoskey, MI --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n003.11 --------------- From: "Greg and Heather Reseck" Subject: bucket lids Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 15:40:28 -0800 Luci Arial asked about screw-on lids for grain storage buckets. What you are describing sounds like the Gamma Seal Lids that I have purchased from www.azurestandard.com. The Gamma Seal Lid transforms a 3.5 to 7 gallon bucket into an easy-to-open airtight and leakproof storage container. It is made of food-grade high-impact-resistant plastic. The entire lid looks much like an ordinary lid with a 12-inch screw down center. The adapter looks like a large ring. Simply pound the adapter onto the bucket with a mallet. Spin on the gasketed lid. To open, spin left and lift. The cost is $5.15. Heather Reseck, R.D. Author of The Fix-it-Fast Vegetarian Cookbook --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n003.12 --------------- From: "Dawn J." Subject: RE: Black & Decker bread machine Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:42:19 -0600 Gene, I bought my mom one several years ago and she loves it. Try this link. http://www.householdproductsinc.com/products.htm HTH!! -Dawn > From: Gene Haldas > Subject: Black & Decker bread machine > Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 20:50:59 -0500 > > > I just acquired an old never-used Black & Decker bread machine. Checking > the Black & Decker WEB site I assumed they no longer make anything but > tools. Does anyone know anything about this machine? > > > --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n003.13 --------------- From: TheGuamTarheels@webtv.net (The Ol' Tarheel) Subject: Bakeries in Paris and Florence... Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 05:10:34 -0500 (EST) This is for Barbara Schmitt who, with her husband, will be visiting Paris and Florence in March and is looking for bakeries in those cities. Let's take them one at a time: Paris: I urge you to get two books; "Boulangerie" by Paul Rambali, and "Paris Boulangerie-Patisserie" by Linda Dannenberg. You will be able to compile a list from these two sources to more than keep you busy in the City of Light. Don't miss Ganachaud on rue M=E9nilmontant, La Flute Gana, and Max Poilane. Florence: There are bakeries all over Florence and I am at a loss to recommend any in particular. I do urge you, if possible, to get out of Florence and into the hill towns of Tuscany to visit the little out-of-the-way bakeries. I was in one where they took me downstairs to see the oven. It was a wonderful place with a coating of flour over everything. The aromas of the wood, the flour, and the finished loaves created a magical place. I hope this helps and that you have a wonderful time. Bob the Tarheel Baker --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n003.14 --------------- From: TheGuamTarheels@webtv.net (The Ol' Tarheel) Subject: One more thing on bannetons. Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 05:21:34 -0500 (EST) I believe it is silly to believe that your bread will taste any better using an over-priced banneton. I am a purist when it comes to some things in the baking of bread, but having a $50 basket lined with a piece of linen is not one of them. I happen to be a basket maker so I created my own, lined them with linen, and have just what I need at a fraction of the price charged in various catalogs. If you do not make baskets, perhaps you know someone who does, or have a basket making group in your area. Buying a fancy basket is akin to buying an SUV only to do battle with the potholes in a supermarket parking lot. Go visit some artisan bakeries and look at their bannetons. These are old, beat-up baskets that get the job done, not some la-de-da stuff that costs way too much. Bob the Tarheel Baker --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n003.15 --------------- From: Gunter Petersen Subject: mixer Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:22:34 -0800 In regard to Magaret Cole question - which mixer to buy - I can recommend the Bosch mixer is really a complete kitchen machine. I use one for over 25 years and never had any problem with it . I even added last year a stainless steel mixing bowl to it. For more information go to www.healtforyouminstry.com I think they are selling it now for $299.99 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n003.16 --------------- From: Barbieagle@aol.com Subject: Need bread machine recommendation Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:30:55 EST My Canadian friend Carole Steinberg is ready to get a machine and a book. Can you please write her to advise which to purchase? Her goal is to bake HEALTHY HEARTY machine loaves. All help appreciated, as usual. Long live the bread list! Carole Steinberg: Please CC to , because Carole is here for another two weeks with no email. John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n003.17 --------------- From: "Shirley Lipscomb" Subject: Dutch Crunch Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:20:21 -0800 I am in search of a recipe for dutch crunch bread and have only found one on the internet and it did not "crunch" the way I wanted it to. I have searched my library of bread baking books and nary a recipe. Can you help? I hope so. Thanks, Shirley Lipscomb shirleyflipscomb@msn.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n003.18 --------------- From: Irene Guevara Subject: sourdough starter Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 03:11:00 -0800 (PST) My starter did well the first 36 hours, then fell, not to be revived the next day. What did I do wrong? Can I still save it? thanks! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Irene Guevara c/o PSI 1120 19th Street NW Washington DC 20036 +226-364101 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ --------------- END bread-bakers.v102.n003 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2002 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved