Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 01:48:35 -0600 (MDT) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v102.n044 -------------- 001 - Nifcon@aol.com - Ciabatta (yawn!) 002 - Reggie Dwork - RE: flat soft bread for fahitas and tacos 017 - Lobo - unglazed clay tiles --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n044.1 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Ciabatta (yawn!) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 18:17:28 EDT CIABATTA This is the result of several months of tinkering with a recipe I'd developed for soft crust bread. The relatively large amount of yeast in the starter is not a misprint. I've got better results from a fast preferment than the usual slow, minimal yeast approach. This is not, nor is it intended to be a recipe that is "authentic" or "definitve" - it just makes superb bread. You will recognise in this recipe influences and techniques from several sources as well as those self taught and I make no claim to originality. EQUIPMENT. You will need :- A heavy duty mixer that can run at medium (3 on a Kenwood) for at least 5 minutes and probably 8 - 10. All the paraphenalia of hearth baking - bakestones, hot oven, water pan, boiling water. Some means - you will have your favourite - of inverting, moving and depositing very wobbly loaves. Silicon paper or cloth, clingfilm or towels A bench scraper, A FULL flour sifter. STARTER 500 gm High-protein (The one I use is 13.2%) white flour 550 gm Warm water 10 gm Instant yeast or equivalent in whatever form of yeast you have available Mix the flour yeast and water thoroughly, In your mixer's bowl is the best place (the mixture is very wet and mixes perfectly easily with a hand whisk) cover and leave in a warm place for at least 3 hours by which time the mixture will have risen and collapsed and be very bubbly and a little sour. Either use the starter straight away or refrigerate overnight, in which case, take it out of the fridge a couple of hours before using it. DOUGH The starter 500 gm flour (same flour as the starter) 5 gm instant yeast 20 gm salt 30 gm dried skimmed milk powder 200 gm very warm water 100 gm olive oil, doesn't have to be single-estate Tuscan but not rubbish either Add the flour, yeast, salt, milk powder, oil and water to the starter, fit the dough hook to the mixer and mix on low speed until combined roughly then turn the mixer up to medium (3 on a Kenwood) and mix for 5 minutes. The dough will appear very wet at first but, gradually, the dough will wrap itself around the hook and JUST clear the bottom of the bowl. This may take up to 10 minutes and you may need to add a little, 10 - 20 gm, extra flour. Sprinkle the top of the dough with flour, dip a scraper in flour and scrape the soft, tacky not sticky, very elastic dough out onto a well-floured counter, shape into a rough square and leave for 10 minutes to relax. Take 1 side of the dough in your hands and stretch the square into a rectangle, repeat with the opposite side, so that the dough is about 3 times as long as wide then fold the dough in 3 like a letter, reshape into a rough square, sprinkle with flour, cover with towels or film and leave until doubled (you can, if counter space is a problem ferment the dough in an oiled bowl). Uncover the dough and sprinkle with flour then cut the dough into 4 strips as if making baguettes. Then fold each piece in 3 along it's length making 4 fat logs and stretch each log out by about 1/3 to make rectangular, quite fat loaves. Place them to prove, seam side up on a well floured surface from which you can invert them later. (Everybody has their own method for inverting and moving doughs.). Leave to prove for about 1 hour until almost doubled and VERY wobbly. Your oven should have been heating on full blast for 45 minutes with the stones in place. Bring about 1/2 litre (more than usually recommended but for my oven, it works.) water to the boil. Invert as many of the loaves as you want to bake (I bake 2 at a time the second batch retarded for 1/2 hour in the fridge.) onto a peel, superpeel or any other device that works for you and slide them straight onto the hot stones working as quickly as you can. When all the loaves are in, dump the boiling water into the pan on the oven floor and close the door quickly. Turn the heat down to 230 C (fan oven) and leave for 15 minutes. Open the door, move the loaves around if necessary (uneven baking is a problem in most ovens) and leave for another 10 minutes. The loaves should be well browned with dark patches and a veiling of flour and the internal teperature should be at least 93 C. If not bake another 5 minutes and test again. Repeat until done. NOTES If you can't manage inversion of the finished loaves then a single, shallow slash lengthways down each loaf is unorthodox but produces a lighter bread. The water and oil numbers are correct - this is a high-hydration dough but it is perfectly manageable. Like several other list members I've come to the conclusion that spritzing during baking is pointless. John Wright Yorkshire, England "That which does not kill us makes us stronger" --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n044.2 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Herbs by Sarah Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 22:12:09 -0700 [[Editor's note: We received this from Sarah, who has recently rejoined bread-bakers.]] I've been very busy with my new business and thought you might be interested in the following article, which appeared in the Sept 26 Baton Rouge paper. http://www.theadvocate.com/stories/092602/foo_bread001.shtml Since mobility limitations make hand-made bread such a challenge, I often turn to quick breads and machines, and I concentrate on developing flavors by using herbs and other ingredients. Regards, Sarah ---- Sarah Liberta 3146 Crestwood Street Baton Rouge, LA 70816 225-296-8008 Fax-225-295-1158 sarahliberta@cox.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n044.3 --------------- From: "Elizabeth" Subject: Re: bacon buns Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 08:05:09 -0400 Clayton has a recipe for Lithuanian "ausytes" (bacon buns), on p. 551 of his bread book, and a website with url http://www.hungrybrowser.com/phaedrus/m042202.htm#3 offered these two recipes: Lithuanian Bacon Buns Ingredients 1 1/2 lb Bacon, finely minced 1 Large Onion, finely minced 2 Cup Milk 1/2 lb Butter 1/2 Cup Sugar 1 Tsp Salt 1 Pkg Fresh or granulated yeast 5 Eggs, slightly beaten 6 Cup All-purpose flour Directions Put minced bacon and onion in skillet; cover with water. Cover pan; simmer until water evaporates. Put complete mixture into a loaf pan and cool in refrigerator. Heat milk and butter; add sugar and salt. Dissolve yeast in 1/2 cup of this lukewarm liquid. Add eggs to remain- dissolved yeast mix. Stir in sifted flour; beat vigorously. Cover; let rise in warm place until doubled (2 hours). Punch down; cover and let rise again. Cut dough into four sections. Roll each section on lightly floured board until 3/8-inch thick. Cut circles with cookie cutter. Put a teaspoon of cooled bacon mixture in center of each; fold sides over. Put seam side down on lightly greased cookie sheet; let rise again until doubled. Bake at 375 degrees for 15 to 20 minutes until lightly tanned; brush with mix of egg yolk and 2 teaspoons water. Continue baking until golden brown, 10 minutes. Serve hot or reheat. Makes 5 dozen. Try it with quick-acting yeast. Deliciously persuasive. and Brandeles Su Lasiniais (Lithuanian Bacon Buns) Ingredients: 4 1/2 cups flour 1 cup milk 2 eggs (beaten) 2 tablespoons sugar 1 oz. cake compressed yeast 1/2 tsp. salt 1/4 cup salad oil or shortening FILLING: 1 lb. bacon (cut fine) 1/4 lb. ham (chopped fine or ground) 1/2 small onion (cut fine) 1 egg Dash of pepper Mix well. Soften yeast in small amount of water and flour; let rise a little. Add milk, eggs, shortening, salt, sugar. Gradually stir in flour to form soft dough. Beat vigorously, cover and let rise in a warm place until it doubles in size. Knead again for 2 minutes. Let rise a second time. Roll out 1/4in thick. Use large glass or circle cookie cutter for shaping buns. Put 1 tablespoon of filling in each circle and seal edges with a little liquid. Let rise again for 15 minutes on greased pan. Brush with raw egg and bake in oven 375 degrees for 25 minutes. Makes 2 dozen. ........................... and there is a similar recipe in Latvia called "Piragi"...from the url http://www.angelfire.com/al2/LatvianStuff/Piragi.html Latvian Bacon Buns These buns can be used as appetizers, as part of a light lunch (with, say, a cup of bouillon), or as part of a smorgasbord. They are best straight from the oven, but can be frozen and re-heated. They are absolutely delicious! Meat Filling 1 finely chopped onion 1/2 - 3/4 lb. bacon, finely diced (or 1/2 lb. bacon and 1/4 lb. ham or pork jowl) salt and pepper to taste (Filling can be prepared ahead of time and kept in the fridge) Dough Ingredients 3/4 c milk 1/4 c butter 2 tsp salt 2 Tbsp sugar 1 pkg (about 1 Tbsp.) dry yeast 1/4 c warm water 1 beaten egg 3 1/2 c white flour 1 - 2 Tbsp sour cream (optional) Glaze Ingredients 1 egg, beaten 1 - 2 tsp milk or water 1/4 tsp sugar (optional) Preparing the Filling The filling should be prepared ahead of time and allowed to cool. Can be prepared the day before and kept cool in the fridge. Dice/chop all filling ingredients and saute in frying pan over low heat until about half the fat has melted (15 - 30 minutes). Drain off all but about a tablespoon of the melted fat. Season with lots of pepper and salt, and allow to cool. Making the Dough Heat the milk until a thin skin starts to form. Remove from heat, and add in butter, salt, and sugar. Let cool until lukewarm. Put the yeast in the quarter cup of warm water. Wait until it starts to bubble up. Add it to the (lukewarm) milk mixture. Also add the beaten egg. To this add about 1 1/2 cps. flour and beat until smooth. Now add the rest of the flour about a half cup at a time, mixing well after each addition. If desired, add the sour cream after all the flour has been added. Sour cream makes for a lighter dough. Cover the bowl with a damp cloth or towel and let the dough "rest" for 10 minutes. Meanwhile prepare a floured surface (board or clean counter) for kneading. After 10 minutes, turn dough out onto floured surface. Knead lightly for 5 - 6 minutes until the dough is smooth, but still somewhat soft. Grease a large bowl. Put dough into bowl and turn it until all surfaces have been greased. Cover bowl with damp cloth, and let rise in a warm place until doubled in bulk (30 - 90 minutes, depending on the warmth of the environment). Making the buns (piragi) When the dough has risen, punch it down. Preheat oven to 400 degrees F. Prepare a floured surface for making piragi. Take meat filling out of fridge. Mix together all the glaze ingredients. Cut off a large piece of the dough. Roll it into a rope about 1 1/2 - 2 inches in diameter. Cut it into segments about 1 1/2 inches thick. Make each bit into a small pancake, oval or square. On one half of it, put a teaspoonful (or a little less) of the filling. Fold the dough over, pinching the edges together. Make sure there are no openings left, or the filling will leak out with the pinched seam underneath. Rising and Baking Place the finished buns on an ungreased cookie sheet, with the pinched seams underneath. Let rise in a warm place, until almost doubled in bulk. Brush them with the glaze. Bake at 400 degrees F for 13 - 18 minutes, depending on their size, and how brown you want them to look. Golden brown is good. Let cool a bit and enjoy! ............................ elsewhere on the Net I saw the expression "selling like hot bacon rolls", referring to some ware or other (not bacon rolls...), so these must be really good! Cholesterol and carbs, here I come! Looking forward to trying one of these recipes myself...thanks for reminding me to make them, it has been in the back of my head for months now, and with cool weather coming on, I'll be firing up the oven more often... :D When I get less busy, want to post one of my favorite recipes for "bolillos with drunken beans"... grateful for all the work, but would like to get back to experimental baking soon! Elizabeth --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n044.4 --------------- From: Gonzo White Subject: Making tacos Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 07:15:43 -0500 Melissa Milos writes that she doesn't have time to roll out the soft wraps. Living in Mexico I can tell her that most Mexicans don't either. They use what I guess would be called a hand press. It's two flat pieces with a lever kind of like a orange juice maker. You put a piece of dough between two pieces of saran wrap into this press, press it down, rotate, press again, rotate, press again and voila you have a perfect tortilla. I have no idea where she could get one outside of Mexico. Try to find a Mexican store someplace, or plan a vacation to Mexico and take one back. Actually that would be nice, it's awful cold in Canada in the winter, beautiful in Mexico. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n044.5 --------------- From: Lois Silverman Subject: Looking for corn rye Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 09:49:02 -0400 Anyone have a good corn rye recipe for breadmachine? I remember fondly the corn rye breads my family used to buy in NYC by the pound! Eaten with butter -- it was a meal by itself. Thanks Lois Silverman --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n044.6 --------------- From: "Bev" Subject: Weighing to bake Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 09:00:51 -0500 Good Morning Barb, I know what you mean about conversions from cups to ounces/grams. When I received a scale a few years back, I searched all over for conversions and found a mass of confusing data. According to my readings, a cup of bread flour weighs :4 oz, 4.5 oz, 4.2 oz, 5 oz. Take your pick So, out of frustration, I decided to wing it. I've been cooking/baking for over 30 years and decided to trust my own measurements. I took out my measuring cups/spoons, my scales, a notebook and a bunch of ingredients. I measured a cup of flour as "I" have always measured a cup of flour (stir, spoon and level) and weighed it. Wrote down the figure. Did the same for whole wheat flour, white sugar, brown sugar, cocoa, water, etc. And those are the measurements I use (incidentally, I use 4.2 oz for white flour, 4.5 for ww, 7 for brown sugar and 6.5 for white). Everyone won't agree with these measurements but they work for me and my favorite recipes turn out fine as well. New recipes seem to work just fine as well although I'm not a perfectionist in the food department. (if it smells great, I'll eat it). Happy weighing, Bev C (who weighs on a Soehlne scale at a price of $50 or so) --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n044.7 --------------- From: "Mike Avery" Subject: Re: Question on using unglazed clay tiles Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 08:39:22 -0600 On 14 Sep 2002, "Joshi, Anjali" wrote: > Hello everyone. My baking stone had cracked badly, and so I went out > and bought a few inexpensive unglazed clay tiles from the home > improvement store. (that was thanks to a suggestion from a few people > on the list). They worked well, did not crack, but the food stuck to > the tiles too much and did not scrape off easily. (I remember someone > had also suggested using fireplace tiles, but since the fireplace > store was some distance away, I tried the Home Depot first.) > Can anyone help me with ideas on what might have gone wrong? This how > I baked with them: 1. Soaked the tiles in cold water for 3-4 hours. 2. > Set them in a cold oven and then turned the oven on. 3. Once the > correct temp was reached, I used a peel to put the food (in this case, > pizza and mini-calzones) on the tiles, baked as usual. > All suggestions welcome :-) I have never soaked my tiles, and see no reason to do so. I can't believe it to be helpful. I add moisture to my oven by having a metal pie pan on the bottom of the oven and pouring a cup or so of hot water in the pan as I close the oven door. Also, I use cornmeal (though others use semolina, wheat, or even tapicoa) to lubricate my peel. I suspect this prevents sticking on the tiles also. As to tile handling, I washed them before the first time I used them, and have left them in my oven ever since. About the only time they come out is when I am in a hurry to bake something that doesn't benefit from the tiles. Such as frozen fish sticks. The tiles more than double the time it takes the oven to warm up, so I do pull them out. I usually use a whisk broom or shop-vac to remove the accumulated cornmeal. Sometimes, if I've baked something that has boiled over onto the tiles, I'll wash them again. But I've had no sticking problems. If your problem continues after you clean your tiles (and stop soaking them) and have a 45 minute to an hour pre-heat, I'd suggest using baker's parchment. Or replacing the tiles. Mike -- Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com ICQ: 16241692 AOL IM:MAvery81230 Phone: 970-642-0282 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n044.8 --------------- From: RosesCakeBible@aol.com Subject: Re: weighing of water Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 10:57:08 EDT Re the weighing of water: according to the dictionary definition extrapolated from the weight of, I believe, a gallon of water, 1 cup weighs 236.35 grams so I go with 236 grams which is 8.27 ounces. fortunately the "8 ounce" measuring cup is usually fairly close to that weight though it varies from cup to cup. The amount of variance from a cold to hot room is insignifcant as is altitude, in relation to the weight. Rose Levy Beranbaum --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n044.9 --------------- From: Jeff Dwork Subject: About weighing water Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 23:20:00 -0700 The "How Many?" website: http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/index.html tells all the gory details of units of measurement. In the US system, the avoirdupois ounce of weight is 1/16 of a pound, which is 7000 grains. A grain is originally the weight of a barleycorn. The avoirdupois ounce is about 28.35 grams. The US fluid ounce is 1/16 of a pint. There are 2 pints in a quart and 4 quarts in a gallon. The US system uses the traditional British wine gallon, defined as 231 cubic inches by Parliament in 1707. The US fluid ounce is about 29.57 milliliters. The British Imperial fluid ounce is 1/20 of an Imperial pint or 1/160 of an Imperial gallon. The Imperial gallon was defined by Parliament in 1824 to be exactly 277.42 cubic ounces, which is the volumn of 10 pounds of water under certain conditions. The imperial fluid ounce is about 28.41 milliliters. One milliliter of water under certain conditions weighs one gram. So a US fluid ounce weighs 1.04 avoirdupois ounces and an Imperial fluid ounce weighs 1.002 avoirdupois ounces. Jeff --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n044.10 --------------- From: Kris Sage Subject: Re: Food stuck to baking tiles Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:03:33 -0400 This message is in reply to Joshi who found that food was difficult to remove from baking tiles. I don't know about the tiles you have, but I bought mine very cheaply from a tile store years ago. I leave them in my self-cleaning oven and clean them right along with the oven. I was afraid they would crack, but I've never had a problem. They clean up beautifully. Kris --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n044.11 --------------- From: RosesCakeBible@aol.com Subject: Re: the weight of a cup of milk Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:20:53 EDT The weight of a cup of milk is 242 grams/8.47 ounces --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n044.12 --------------- From: Howard Larson Subject: Re: weighing Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 09:52:20 -0500 >From: "Steven Leof" >Subject: Weighing liquids, amount of protein and amount of yeast >Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 10:59:59 +0100 [snip] >Following the recent thread about using scales coincidently I have been >struggling to convert my bread recipes from avoirdupois to the metric >system. Weighing dry ingredients seems straightforward (rightly or >wrongly I assume that 1 cup of flour is equal to 8 ounces or 228 grams). The best way to determine the weight of flour is from the nutrition label on the bag. Here are some weights for 1/4 cup: Ceresota whole wheat, 30g; Pillsbury whole wheat, 33g; Pillsbury bread flour, 31g; Ceresota all-purpose flour, 30g. >However converting liquid measures from teaspoons, tablespoons and >cups to grams has left me scratching my head. Here are some volume conversions: 1 tsp = 5 ml, 1 tbsp = 15 ml, 1 cup = 236.6 ml >Weighing a cup of water isn't a problem for my trusty old-fashioned >English Weylux Queen scale. But what is the weight I should assume >correct for a cup of water? 1 cup of water weighs 236.6g (or 235g if your scale has 5gm resolution like mine). >Does the weight of water vary in a colder or a warmer room? 1 ml water weighs 1 gm; strictly speaking at 4 degrees C, but I don't think variation with temperature is going to matter much in baking. >I have not seen a conversion table anywhere. When substituting milk, >buttermilk, olive oil and other liquids in recipes should I assume that >all liquids weigh the same? No. Specifically, you need to know the water content of milk when substituting for water. Whole milk weighs 244g per cup and contains 214.7g of water. 1% milk weighs 244g per cup and contains 219.8g of water. Another way of figuring the amount of milk to use is to assume whole milk is 88% water by weight and 1% milk is 90% water by weight. Oils all weigh 13.6g per tablespoon. >Recipes with percentages are much easier to>replicate time and >again and to modify than traditional recipes; even the >new wave of bread books fall down when it comes to liquids.... Recipes by weight are more common in Europe. Hopefully, American publishers will pick up on this one day. Howard Larson --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n044.13 --------------- From: Howard Larson Subject: Re: weighing Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 10:08:49 -0500 >From: Barbara Ross >Subject: Weighing to bake >Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 13:34:19 -0400 >I would LOVE to bake bread by weighing ingredients as the few times I >have, it's worked out great and it's much easier. The scale I have has >a top large enough for a bowl. You put the item in til the weight, hit >the button and it's back to zero and add the other item. No cups or >spoons to clean up. And the end result is much better. Just one problem: >most recipes come in cups, not ounces or grams, so how do we weigh when >the recipe says to measure??? > >Barb Ross The best way to determine the weight of baking ingredients is to refer to the nutrition label on the package. See my response to Steven Leof's question for some examples for liquids and flour. The weight of flour will be given in grams per 1/4 cup; usually around 30g. Here is some data for sugar: brown, 3.2g/tsp; granulated, 4.2g/tsp; and powdered, 8g/tbsp. Ordinary table salt is 6g/tsp. Howard Larson --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n044.14 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Barb - weighing. Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 12:26:56 EDT Barb wrote > Just one problem: most > recipes come in cups, not ounces or grams, so how do we > weigh when the recipe says to measure??? > "Most recipes" in the US maybe but the doomed attempt to measure accurately ingredients other than liquids by volume is something the US has developed all by itself. Unless they're converting for the benefit of an American audience, cooks in the rest of the western world use weights for non-liquids. Volume for liquids makes a little more sense but the actual amount (mass) of, say, olive oil or water in a given volume depends on temperature. A litre of oil at 30 C contains less oil that a litre at 15 C. As for conversion from cups to weights the best thing to do is take what is pretty standard conversion factor of 140 grams to the cup of flour as a start, flour being the base of any bread, then, each time you use a new ingredient, look up conversion factors on the net, ask the list or, probably the easiest, measure in your usual way but weigh each cupful and note the factor for later use. Metric is not only easier to use, particularly with baker's percetages, but has the advantage of being universal, except for the US. A kilo is a kilo wherever you are - pounds, pints , bushels, pecks, teaspoons and so on all vary with country. The debate about measuring methods is complex, often heated and prone to hijacking by metric/volume/imperial adherents who think that any measuring system other than the one they use is a communist/atheist/American Imperialist/unpatriotic (insert your bogeyman here) plot to undermine the fabric of society. It's just not that difficult to work in any measurement system and the calculations involved needed half a brain before calculators and spreadsheets and now about a tenth of a brain. And I'm not being dismissive or impatient - it's just that, when you bake seriously you soon realise that technique is the key to success and that measurement is a lesser source of failure. I baked bread recently in a kitchen who's sole measuring capability was a thick walled Pyrex jug. All I did was measure the liquids roughly, to give some control over final dough weight, then add flour until the dough was the consistency I wanted. The bread was excellent. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n044.15 --------------- From: "Susannah Ayres-Thomas" Subject: Keeping unsalted butter Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:22:14 -0500 One person mentioned that he bought salted butter because of its keeping properties. While it's true that salted butter does keep longer, it's also possible to keep unsalted for a greater period of time simply by freezing it--I do this all the time, because I stock up when there's a good sale on butter. If you take the precaution of putting the butter, still in its original packaging, in a zippy bag or a tightly sealed plastic container (so it doesn't pick up odors), it will keep for up to six months in your refrigerator freezer, and even longer in a deep freeze. Also, in response to the person who asked for avoirdupois to metric conversions on liquids, water in specific, a teaspoon is 5 milliliters, a Tablespoon is 15mL, an ounce 30mL, a cup is approximately 240mL. And, as a milliliter of water weighs exactly 1 gram, those conversions are not at all difficult--it's one-for-one. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n044.16 --------------- From: Lobo Subject: RE: flat soft bread for fahitas and tacos Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:24:10 -0700 > "melissa milos" wrote: snip >I have had to purchace my soft taco shells because of the time consumtion >of rolling them and as well my mini pizza shells. The type I like are like >the ones used for wraps at kfc or wendy's if anyone would share their >recipe with me There's a recipe on this site for flour tortillas. I'm not familiar with the KFC and Wendy's, so I don't know if it's what you want. http://www.breadmachinedigest.com/recipe_club.html --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n044.17 --------------- From: Lobo Subject: unglazed clay tiles Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:39:58 -0700 >From: "Joshi, Anjali" snip >worked well, did not crack, but the food stuck to the tiles too much and did >not scrape off easily. dust the tiles with cornmeal. --------------- END bread-bakers.v102.n044 --------------- -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v102.n045 -------------- 001 - Dbbr - Mixers--I have or tried them all-long 002 - Ellen Lee - Unglazed clay tiles as baking stones 003 - "RMHI" Subject: Mixers--I have or tried them all-long Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 14:34:57 -0400 About mixers: Delonghi, Magic Mill, Botch, and KitchenAid. An opinion by an obviously compulsive mixer buyer--who lives in a studio apartment, with a not so big kitchen and a very bad 15 inch oven. The Killer Recipe--my sweet yeast dough recipe (when made called yeast cake)--flour, milk, butter--a lot of butter--of course yeast. I just returned the new Delonghi mixer (shea Kenwood, Rival)--It has a very loud strange noise even at a low setting (like a repaired machine has). It did not mix my batter thoroughly, when I made Marcie Goldman's delicious honey cake recipes. I had to hand mix it. Then I gave it the mixer the ultimate test-- doubling my sweet yeast dough. I kept to the machines flour limits, but it temporarily died on me after kneading for about six minutes (it did revive), but I did not know if it would so I through the dough in my bosch to finish kneading. While kneading in the Delonghi, the mixer started to move around enough that I would have to be close to it while it is kneading. (I will say my yeast cake was the best ever, but I think it is more because of the way I rolled it and made the filling, but I am not sure. The cake recipe failed (not Marcie's fault--I made it many times and it is perfect), could be the mixer or because I made my own baking powder, with cream of tarter and baking soda and it was too powerful. Remade the recipe that night (bought new baking powder and used my Kitchenaid and it was perfect). Oh, I do like that the head of the Delonghi machine back tilts back. Magic Mill mixer: I have it for about four years. I cannot figure out how to make bread in it. Mine almost always comes out heavy. Maybe it is because I usually make small batches. The magic mill mixer is the one I take out to make my sweat yeast dough. I can triple the recipe and it handles if fine and it does not move. The yeast cake usually comes out well, but yeast cake is not known for it's light bready texture. The magic mill makes does make excellent quick bread (better than Kitchenaid) and buttercream. To make the above items you use the regular bowl, which is huge and without a stem in the middle. It is very easy to add ingredients. You have to use a different bowl to whip egg whites, which does have a beautiful consistency, but I am not crazy about the hole in the middle and sometimes I will have about a teaspoon of unbeaten eggwhite (weird). I compared pound cake with this mixer and Bosch and they both came out great, which surprised me I actually thought the magic mill would have done a better job. Easy to clean. Bosch concept 7: The bowl has a hole in the middle and is sort of saucer shaped. I thought it wouldn't do as good a job on cake, but it does an excellent job--you do have to stop and scrape down the middle sides and the outer sides. Made okay bread--haven't gotten the hang of it on this machine, but has come out better than the magic mill. I have doubled my sweat yeast bread recipe and it had handled it with ease. Made great pound cake--as the magic mill mixer did. What could be an advantage to this machine is that you don't have to change bowls to make different things, just beaters: whisk, bread, and cookie dough (the cookie dough head you have to buy separately--it does a great job on cakes). The concept 7 stays put when kneading dough--I have heard the universal sometimes moves around. The base is surprisingly light and can be stored on a shelf. Oh, and the blender that comes with it is fantastic. Easy to clean Kitchenaid Five Quart: I love the kitchenaid--I love making food in it--maybe because I have used it the longest, since the 70's. I do believe the bread I have made from it has come out better than the bosch and the magicmill. That being said--my machine had to be repaired twice--and that is sixty dollars a repair and I have the old hobart made machine. The last time was when making my sweet yeast dough. I made a single batch and it handled it fine. I then started to make another single batch and it died and did not revive. I had to get it repaired. The repairman told me he repairs these machines all the time. That was when I decided to get another machine. I did buy a newer kitchenaid with the circuit breaker--thinking I was safe, but the machine died making regular bread (though it revived)--and I kept to the limits--and did not raise the speed. I just feel, if I am buying a machine to make bread, I should not have to be that cautious. Not so easy to clean. My advice is if you buy a Kitchenaid to make bread, buy one with the circuit breaker, that way if it dies it might just might come to live (without having to take it to the hospital). Oh I used to demonstrate Cuisinarts and got the new one (surprise) which does make good bread, but only one or two loaves (I don't know if you can do multiple batches). I also like that the feed tube is in front. Unfortunately, the feed is annoying to put on. Okay, I know the MagicMill and the Bosch should be the machine of choice for people who want to make a lot of bread, but they both have a learning curve. Most of the time I only make one loaf of bread, it is when I have to bake for my extended family, that I need the big machines. Of the two, I like the Magic Mill a bit better, just because I am not comfortable with the shape of the bosch's bowl. They do make great cakes, etc. BTW large wattage does not equal more strength--it has something to do with how efficient your machine is at using the power. The Kitchenaid does have a reputation of dying when making bread. From the information I got from mixer lists--some Kitchenaids are totally solid and work forever and others die very quickly. My advice, if you buy a kitchenaid is to get a new one and use it a lot during the first year--kitchenaid does have a great return policy--test it out to see if you have a solid one. Even if you have a great one, the Kitchenaid does not make as many loaves as the ones above. So figure out how much capacity you really need and don't go by bowl size, go by how much flour each machine can handle. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.2 --------------- From: Ellen Lee Subject: Unglazed clay tiles as baking stones Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 15:09:21 -0400 Anjali: I have had my baking stones so long that I can't recall whether I had to do anything to them to keep dough from sticking, but I do know that I don't soak them and I sprinkle them with a little cornmeal. I use unglazed clay bread pans, and I seasoned them before initially using them as I did cast iron fry pans and gridle. Wipe a piece of paper toweling or waxed paper through solid vegetable shortening (I used Crisco) and rub a very thin coat on the inside surfaces and rim of the pan; place in 300 degree oven for 30 minutes; repeat at least twice or until a "skin" is formed. I think you could try the same treatment on the cooking surface of your clay tiles. Ellen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.3 --------------- From: "RMHI" Subject: Oregon Herb Bread Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 13:55:12 -0600 Hello There is a bread called Oregon Herb that is made by a Boulder based breadmaker and I've been searching for a recipe forever, does anyone out there have one? thanks Brad --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.4 --------------- From: Ellen Subject: Re: weight of flour Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 14:49:09 -0400 >Following the recent thread about using scales coincidently I have been >struggling to convert my bread recipes from avoirdupois to the metric >system. Weighing dry ingredients seems straightforward (rightly or wrongly >I assume that 1 cup of flour is equal to 8 ounces or 228 grams). The weight of a cup of flour (regular white flour bleached or unbleached) is usually 4 or 4 1/2 oz by weight. For bread recipes that only use cup measurements I usually weigh out 4 1/2oz per cup and then hold some back when adding the flour and see if I need all of it or not. Some recipes seem to be assuming more like 5oz cups .... Ellen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.5 --------------- From: Barbara Ross Subject: Which Bosch mixer? Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 17:00:13 -0400 I have stripped 3 Kitchen Aid mixers. I got the 6 qt professional (525 watt motor) 16 months ago and that just broke. They're sending me another but I think I've had it with Kitchen Aid. I really bake bread more than anything. I've looked at Bosch's based on what others on the list are saying, but there's several kinds (universal, concept 7, etc). Which is the best, strongest mixer out there? My husband, who is British, says Kenwood was great, but they're not around. BTW, I have a new Bosch gas cooktop and I'm NOT happy with it, so Bosch scares me. Barb Ross NJ --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.6 --------------- From: Carolyn Subject: Re: bahgi/bahji Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 06:54:17 -0400 These are sold in the bins next to/with bagels in our local Wegmans. Some have garlic and cheese, or salt. They look like bagel dough that has been flattened, rather than rolled & shaped. Carolyn Schaffner in Buffalo, NY --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.7 --------------- From: "Ben McGehee" Subject: Re: food sticking to tiles Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 08:28:09 -0400 Joshi, Anjali writes: >They worked well, did not crack, but the food stuck to the tiles >too much and did not scrape off easily. I also have tiles in my oven. I would suggest using parchment paper and placing the paper on the stones, instead of putting the dough directly on them. My pizza dough recipe is fairly sticky, and I am sure that it would stick to the tiles if I placed it straight on there. Ben McGehee --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.8 --------------- From: "Ben McGehee" Subject: Re: weighing and retarding Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 08:59:31 -0400 Steven Leof writes: >But what is the weight I should assume correct for a >cup of water? 1 cup of water should weigh 8 ounces or whatever the metric equivalent would be. >Does the weight of water vary in a colder or a warmer room? Technically, yes. But is it enough for you or your scale to notice within normal kitchen usage - no. >When substituting milk, buttermilk, olive oil and other liquids >in recipes should I assume that all liquids weigh the same? No, you can't assume that. Think about it. Oil rises to the top of water, therefore it must be lighter. My suggestion would be to make your own conversion table. Measure out one cup of milk, oil, etc, and then weigh it. It may not be perfect, but it's a way to start. >Should I reduce the amount of yeast I use for doughs that are >retarded? If so by how much? I would say that you don't have to. Reducing the yeast and retarding the doughs are both ways of increasing rising time. Combining the two makes for an even longer rising time. While this may be desirable, it certainly isn't necessary. Ben McGehee --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.9 --------------- From: Krtbag@aol.com Subject: Re: weighing Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 20:43:59 EDT To leof, all liquids measure different, they are same by volume but vary by weight...measure everything by weight...1 cup of flour is approx. 4 1/2 to 5 1/4 ounces depending on the flour...measure everything! I recommend keeping your yeast at 2% even in retarding mode, slower the rise better the flavor. As for the protein content in flour, as a rule of thumb the more protein (gluten forming proteins) in the flour the more gluten you can develop during mixing. Great for super slack doughs like ciabatta etc. A great flour for most breads is usually called unbleached white bread flour around the 13% protein level. Hope this helps a little --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.10 --------------- From: "Sherry" Subject: re: preheating oven, Rosemary Walnut loaves Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 07:55:30 -0400 re: preheating the oven Coming out of Lurkdom here to announce that yesterday I made the Rosemary Walnut loaves in the new issue of Cooking Light, which called for preheating the oven to 400F, then reducing it to 375F upon placing the loaves into it. They came out great and tasted fabulous, though I did lose some dough "rise" when slashing the tops with my Exacto knife. Guess it wasn't as sharp as I thought it was! Sherry <------ loving the list activity as of late --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.11 --------------- From: Michael.May@bmo.com Subject: Welbilt parts Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 08:09:03 -0400 Re: Ordering Welbilt Doughblade I actually had luck obtaining a new Welbilt blade from a company called Gourmet Depot. They were able to supply a Welbilt Part that the "official" supplier (Tritronics) said was out of production. Problem is, the website www.appliancesales.com seems to be down, and I can't access the 800 number from Canada, so maybe they aren't around anymore. The number to try is 1-800-866-7837...good luck. [[Editor's note: the 800 number works from the US - I got a recording stating business hours 8:30 am - 5:30 pm M-F and 9 - 5 Sat Pacific time and the above web address. But the website isn't right.]] Regards Michael May --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.12 --------------- From: Tom Reingold Subject: weighing measures Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 11:18:11 -0400 Steven, The English system of measures is pretty difficult, but one really convenient thing is that an ounce of water weighs an ounce. So when you are using water, one type of ounce equals the other type of ounce. This is true for any temperature of water, as long as it's liquid. So 8 fluid ounces (i.e. one cup) of water weighs half a pound. One kiligram equals 2.2046 pounds, so that cup of water weighs about 0.227 kilograms. Maybe I would round it to 250 grams to make the recipe easier. I think that with its extra sugar, fat and protein, milk would weight a little less per unit of volume, but not significantly enough to care. This is not true with oils. Oil floats on top of water (or vinegar) because it weighs less. I don't know how many ounces an ounce of oil weighs, and I don't know how much the various oils vary in density (weight per unit of volume). A web search makes it easy to find conversion tables. For instance, I found http://convert.french-property.co.uk/ which converts between metric and Imperial and also between metric and USA measures. Tom --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.13 --------------- From: "Herman Reinhart" Subject: Salt in butter Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 08:17:01 -0700 I want to thank all who responded to my question about salt free butter. I now can now use regular butter with out the guilt. Herman Reinhart reinhart@bigvalley.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.14 --------------- From: "David A Barrett" Subject: Re: From ice cubes to preheating oven Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:51:52 -0400 Richard and all, This is a repeat of what I said a few months ago, so I'll make it shorter.... I heat the oven to maximum for about 1/2 hour prior to baking. This also gets the baking stone good and hot. I put a large, empty jelly roll pan in the bottom. The dough goes in, and immediately after that goes almost 2 cups of hot water into the jelly roll pan. Then I turn the oven down to 450F. Points I've noticed: 1. The oven never gets back up to 450F. So much steam pours out the top (the convection hole) that it takes away heat as fast as the oven can produce it in the 450F degree range. 2. The water is gone after 10 minutes. This is ideal. 3. I lose about 50F degrees each time I open the oven. Therefore, I only open the oven to put the dough and water in. Once. At the beginning. 4. So much steam is produced, I can't imagine how spritzing could possibly add anything to it. Probably, more steam would roll out the door than would be added by the spritzing. 5. Bread comes out perfect, lots of oven spring, and a good crispy crust. 6. Wear oven mitts when you add the water. Having your knuckles cooked by the explosion of steam that comes off the 500 degree jelly roll pan when the water hits it is somewhat less than fun. 7. This is the simplest method. No fussing around spritzing, no ice cubes, no opening the door, no watching the bread. thanx, dave. *8-o --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.15 --------------- From: NuttyBakerGirl Subject: Re: converting cups and spoon measurements to weight measurements Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 00:14:13 -0600 Barbara Ross posted about how to convert recipes to be able to weigh them. Well, there is actually a list of what certain ingredients in cups and spoon measurements approximately weigh. I believe there is such a list in the Bread Bakers Apprentice and also on the King Arthur site. I just use that to convert my recipes. For instance 1 cup of flour measured by fluffing up the flour with a spoon and then measuring by the dip and sweep method weighs something like 4.7 oz (I can't remember exactly). So you just take this number and multiply it by the number of cups of flour that the recipe calls four. Sugar weighs something like 7.2 oz for ever cup or something like that. For measurements less than 2 tbs I don't bother weighing. Rule of thumb: 16 liquid oz (1 pint) of water, milk, and beaten eggs is 1 pound by weight. Roxanne --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.16 --------------- From: "kylewarendorf@myvzw.com" Subject: Re: flour weight and protein content Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 05:50:33 -0400 "rightly or wrongly I assume that 1 cup of flour is equal to 8 ounces or 228 grams" That would be wrongly :-) A cup of flour weighs 4-5 oz. Using 8 oz. would yield very stiff dough and very dense loaves. "Is the difference between 11.8%, 12.5% and 13.2% in the end product discernable?" If you can get your hands on bread flower, in the 13% range, I would use it for artisan breads. Because you won't be using a pan, the extra gluten will help. On the retarding question, I do not adjust my formulae. I find retarding not only makes the scheduling easier, it greatly enhances the flavor of my bread. Just one man's opinion :-) Kyle --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.17 --------------- From: "Faye Killian" Subject: Zojirushi Bread Machine Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:25:52 -0700 Hello Everyone, My name is Faye and I am new to this list. I have a request to make so here goes. Does anyone out there have a non working Zojirushi Bread Machine, model no. BBCC-S15A that would be willing to part with the bread pan with the kneading paddle? Mine is stuck inside the pan and I can't get it out. I am told by the tech at Zoji that it is probably frozen on the shaft inside the pan so now I am on a mission to find another bread pan. If anyone can help, please email me at.... fkillian@bayou.com Thanks very much, Faye --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.18 --------------- From: Barbara Ross Subject: How do you get chewy pizza crust? Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 20:56:57 -0400 I've been making my own pizza for years. I do a double rise, like bread, and it's great. However, there's one pizza store near us that has crust that is so chewy it's almost like rubber. I LOVE it that way, but don't know what they do to get it that way. Is it the fact that the dough sits in a tight container, not allowed to rise, but resting for hours?? Does anyone have any idea how to get really CHEWY pizza crust??? Barbara Ross --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.19 --------------- From: Pat Robb Subject: Cookies for horses Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 07:24:42 -0700 I know this is an unusual request, but I have reached the point of desperation here. My daughter tells me that there are places where you can mail order cookies to feed your horse. They are quite expensive. I haven't seen one, so I don't know what the ingredients are. I've found all kinds of recipes for dog biscuits, but none for horses. My daughter believes I can bake anything. Not this time. Has anyone out there come across these? Any suggestions, or hopefully, recipes would be much appreciated. Pat Robb --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.20 --------------- From: "Larry E. Montague" Subject: Bread Machine Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 23:36:08 -0500 I was given a Red Star Bread Machine, Model KBM-12. My problem is that it didn't have any instructions with it. Could you possibly tell me where I might download or get a copy of the instructions for this model? I appreciate any help. Sincerely, Larry E. Montague lmontague@bellsouth.net http://www.montaguemillennium.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.21 --------------- From: Marlene Lang Subject: I want to learn how to use my breadmaker Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 21:02:23 -0600 Hi, I was given a 2nd hand breadmaker but it has no instructions on how to use it. It is your model # 41030 575 watt 120 volt machine. I normally just make bread from scratch and bake it in my regular oven. Now I'm working & that method takes too long. Can you help? Thanks! My e-mail adress is: glitter84725@yahoo.com My snail mail address is: Marlene Lang PO Box 312 Enterprise, Utah 84725 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n045.22 --------------- From: Pooith@aol.com Subject: owners and operational manual Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:45:48 EDT I need a owners and operational manual of a Welbilt Bread Machine, model number ABM-100-3. My grandma gave the the bread machine without the manual, and now she is deceased (God rest her soul). If any one can help me, I would be vey thankful!! Please send all emails to jensm559@hotmail.com I do not have the money, nor will I be able to come up with the money to purchase a new bread machine. I am hoping to make breads for everyone for Christmas. Thank you, Jennifer Smith [[Editor's note: I already sent Jennifer the Welbilt information from bread-bakers.v102.n041 from Sept 14]] --------------- END bread-bakers.v102.n045 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2002 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved