Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 00:17:06 -0700 (MST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v103.n048 -------------- 001 - RosesCakeBible@aol.com - Baker's percentages 002 - Nifcon@aol.com - Clear flour - an approximation - for Steven Leof 003 - JColCLEFA@aol.com - Re: the feel of dough 004 - Nifcon@aol.com - Stout and Oat Bread - a question for Randy. 005 - "Rich Halbert" wrote: >Subject: Rose - bakers' percentages. >Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:28:57 EDT > >Baker's' percentages are not really percentages they are ratios. > >The often quoted example of the Paris baguette which is usually; given as >100/60/2/2 of flour/water/salt/fresh yeast is saying that the bread >contains the ingredients in those ratios and it's only because convention >dictates that the flour weight should be expressed as 100 that percentages >come into the picture. The recipe could easily be specified as 50/30/1/1. > >Also the benefits of calculating in ratios is only really apparent when >you're using metric weights. A kilo of flour, as an example of a starting >point I often use, just gives rise to weights of 1000/600/20/20 grams of >flour,water, salt and yeast.. Avoirdupois weights being binary in nature >do not map well onto ratios. If you wanted to make the recipe with, for >example 2 pounds flour, you have 2lb, 1lb 3 1/4 oz, 5/8 oz, 5/8 oz >rounded as close as possible. It is not immediately apparent what ratio >underlies these weights. I originally referred to the baker's % as "the rose ratio" but two scientists took issue saying that it is not actually or technically a ratio so I thought I'd better be safe and call it by what it is referred to traditionally. While I agree that the usual purpose is to be able to scale up and down recipes, my purpose was a little different. It was to show people the full amount of water, fat, and, salt including that which is in added ingredients so they could have a sense of what the bread would be like without having to make it and decide whether they might prefer a different type of bread or maybe even to decrease or increase the salt or the liquid etc. to suit their own tastes. Now I'm kinda sorry I didn't just leave it as "the rose ratio!" Off on book tour now so won't be able to respond too quickly but if there are any questions about my new book I'll certainly address them on "the list" as soon as I can. best, Rose --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n048.2 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Clear flour - an approximation - for Steven Leof Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 07:04:38 EST Steven A good approximation of "clear" flour (one of those old-fashioned designations that millers and professional bakers use to make their craft seem mysterious to a wondering public) can be produced very easily by passing 100% wholewheat flour through an ordinary kitchen sieve and discarding the coarse bran that remains in the sieve (5%-10% by weight of the original flour - varies with finenness of grind and brand). I found this equivalence in Peter Reinhart's Bread Baker's Apprentice. He uses it in his formula for Poolish Baguettes. John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n048.3 --------------- From: JColCLEFA@aol.com Subject: Re: the feel of dough Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 07:30:05 EST I'm new to the list so hello all- I wanted to add that since I bake bread twice daily, I reserve Saturdays for making Poolish, Biga, and Pate Fermentee for retarding in the fridge for the week. Yesterday I was kneading the Biga after its room temp fermentation, and I couldn't put it down - It was a comfort to hold and I wound up walking around the house with it cupped in my hands. Like others in the list this is something that no one but bread bakers seem to get, and the non bakers all give me the same look when I wax emotional about my various doughs. The elasticity, strength, and barely imperceptible warmth given off by the live high hydration doughs is to me enchanting. Gotta bake now- JPJC --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n048.4 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Stout and Oat Bread - a question for Randy. Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:06:30 EST Randy Clemens wrote: >This is a formula I've been meaning to try forever, simply because I love >Murphy's Irish Stout so much. If you give it a try, please tell me how it >is. This is from Collister & Blake's "Country Breads of the World" and is >courtesy of Maurice Chaplais from "The Flour Bag" in Glouchestershire, England. You've been meaning to try this bread "forever" so, the obvious question is "Why haven't you made it?". A person less polite than myself might say "If you haven't got round to making the bread, what makes you think anyone on the list will do so?" That paragraph does not read very helpfully but I have to admit that, when I read a message containing a recipe or formula for a bread that the author of the post has merely repeated without testing, I'm not normally inclined to make it unless it is particularly interesting or strikes some chord in me. There are, literally, MILLIONS of bread recipes on the web, and in books, most Ho-Hum, some actively unpleasant, some designed to confuse, some that are downright crap and a few, a very small proportion, that are excellent, innovative, delicious or all three. The only way to find out which category a bread inhabits is to make it. Something I'd be much more inclined to do with your posted recipe if you had made the bread yourself and found it worthwhile. As it is, it just sits in my Email waiting to be tried but odds are long it never will be. John p.s. The "problem" of untested recipes posted to cooking list is one over which list members wrangle, endlessly. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n048.5 --------------- From: "Rich Halbert" Subject: Re "Pain L 'Americain" Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 07:31:26 -0500 Erika Newman wrote: >Erika816@webtv.net (Erika Newman) >Subject:Pain L 'Americain >Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:49:22 -0500 (EST) > >Reading the list I have read so many wonderful things about this simple >bread. A friend makes it and promised me the recipe months ago and in the >recent past unfortunately he never came through. Can anyone be so kind as >to send it to me? I would be very grateful. Thanks in advance....Erika Newman Actually Erika I believe you really want the recipe for "Pain a l'Ancienne" which is a wonderfully simple bread and is often discussed in this forum. Unfortunately that recipe was perfected by and belongs to Peter Reinhart. There are two simple solutions to getting the recipe. One is to buy his "Bread Baker's Apprentice" book. Another is to hunt for a newspaper article in which the bread was part of a food feature. I know of one such article published in Norfolk, Virginia's "Virginian Pilot" newspaper in Jan 2003. There may be others so search it out. Let me assure you it will be worth your time. Rich in NC. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n048.6 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Steven Leof - minimum protein levels Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:16:57 EST Steven At a ratio of 2/1 wheat/rye I don't think there's a minimum level. I have made pleasant breads with 20-40% "non-gluten contributing" grains (rye, barly, corn) using extremely cheap, white wheat flour with protein as low as 10.3% and the results were a little heavier than usual but more than edible. That said, if you want an open-structured, light loaf you need to be looking at wheat flour in the 13%+ protein range. The general rule of thumb is that the higher the protein level the less the flavour of t he finished bread but, at 1/3 rye, flavour is not going to be a problem. John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n048.7 --------------- From: Gonzo White Subject: berries Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 07:23:26 -0600 In response to Joy's question: >Is this a can of whole cranberries or a can of whole berry cranberry sauce? It is whole berry cranberry sauce. Sorry I didn't know you could buy whole cranberries in a can. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n048.8 --------------- From: Nifcon@aol.com Subject: Ed - Shaping baguettes without flour Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:37:16 EST Ed: Since you told me, in private correspondence about your KA class I've been shaping all my 60% or so hydration baguettes without flour on the counter and the resulting appearance is a quantum leap in quality. To illustrate the kind of impressive appearance you can obtain with this small adjustment to to your technique I have crude pix, in a zip file, 650 kb in size I can send to anyone interested. Email me if you want a copy. John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n048.9 --------------- From: "Nora Brown" Subject: Pizza Book Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:18:29 -0600 Does anyone know when Peter Reinhart's pizza cookbook is going to be released? Nora --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n048.10 --------------- From: Christopher Subject: cinnamon pellets Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 10:31:42 -0600 Harold, I think your friend may be looking for something along these lines. It's not something you buy in the store but rather you make it yourself. Before cutting the butter or margarine into the flour, mix in 2 to 3 teaspoons (or more) of cinnamon and 1 teaspoon of fine sugar. You may need to refrigerate the butter to give it the right consistency. When the scones bake there will be little "pellets" of cinnamon baked throughout. I would imagine this method could be applied to any scone or similar recipe. This is also far more tasty then anything you can buy on the shelf. Chris --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n048.11 --------------- From: Roxanne Rieske Subject: RE: Clear flour AND November is National Bread Month Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:43:56 -0700 Steven Leof asked about clear flour. You can find clear flour from professional suppliers or you can make your own by sifting whole wheat flour to remove the bran. Clear flour is the strongest availabe flour for baking and has a protein level between 16.2 and 18%. High gluten flour which is easier to find AND works just as well in rye recipes) has a max protein level of 14.5 to 16%. You can make exceptional rye breads using high gluten flour. I've never had need to use clear flour. November is National Bread Month by Congressional Decree. To find out more visit . To celebrate this event, Panera Bread is participating in a bread promotion from Nov 4-Nov 9. Each day of the week will be a different theme and the first 50 customers of each day will get a free loaf of bread. Also Tyler Florence's Panera Bread recipes (which he used on his national book tour) are now available on Panera's website. Roxanne Rieske rokzane@comcast.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n048.12 --------------- From: "Allen Cohn" Subject: RE: Pesky flours and the baguette Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 16:07:56 -0800 Oooh...I wish could take that class. FYI, I was lucky enough to get a tour of Panorama Bakery (a supplier to many of the top end restaurants in the San Francisco Bay Area, http://www.panoramabaking.com/), and the president told me that they bake at 350 F! Since then I've been experimenting with such lower temperatures while making rustic loaves. My hope is that the lower temperature will allow a longer baking time and thus more time to drive moisture out of the center of the loaf (so that the crust doesn't become soggy during cooling). I wouldn't want to go lower than 350 F because I fear the browning reactions wouldn't occur. Allen Cohn allen@cohnzone.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n048.13 --------------- From: Dave Crissman Subject: English bread baker Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 17:37:57 -0800 (PST) My wife, in her ever forward pursuit of thngs of value from thrift stores, has found a terra cotta baking "pan". It is about 3 x 6 inches and has the inscription "The Original Suffolk Bread Baker - Ideal for Baking an English Loaf" printed on the one side. On the bottom, impressed in the pan, is "Wattisfield Ware Suffolk" Is this really for baking, or is it a promotional item? Does the term "An English Loaf" refer to this size loaf or a particular recipe? Dave C --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n048.14 --------------- From: "Steven Leof" Subject: Clear flour Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 06:57:01 -0000 Many thanks to all of you who responded to my request on sourcing clear flour in the UK. To my surprise every response was the same, order from King Arthur in Vermont. Surely there must be sources of this flour the UK let alone other ones in America)? Steven Leof --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n048.15 --------------- From: RCannetoAL@aol.com Subject: Wonderful Whole Wheat Bread! Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:12:58 EST Hello ! I have been baking a lot of the breads from The Bread Bible and having read Rosie's comments on cracked wheat bread, I suddenly felt the urge to make some Whole Wheat Bread. I used the receipe from The King Arthur CookBook. Having the dough do its thing for two hours before adding the rest of the flour made the difference. My bread came out sooo delicious!!!! I love baking bread! I also baked a beautiful pumpkin pie and some yummy pumpkin muffins with chocolate chips. My family enjoyed the goodies. Ciao, Rose --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n048.16 --------------- From: "Kenneth McMurtrey" Subject: My Mother's Bread Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 22:14:23 -0600 As far back as I can remember my mother made bread. She made three types: cornbread (always baked in a round cast iron skillet and without sugar, thank you very much), biscuits, and lite bread. The first two relied on baking soda or baking powder for raising power while the lite bread was a yeast bread we would call sandwich bread. We lived on a farm in Ozark County, Missouri, in the heart of the Ozark Mountains. In that area cornbread was for the evening meal, supper. Biscuits were usually for breakfast or dinner, particularly for Sunday dinner if fried chicken was being served. Folks there did not eat lunch. I was a man, full grown before ever I heard the phrase, "Let's do lunch." Lite bread was served for any of the three meals and was usually the choice if company was coming to dinner. Mom's biscuits were serviceable and delicious but were very large and lacked a certain elegance. The cornbread was good excepting those times when she forgot to add baking soda with the buttermilk and it didn't rise at all. I've never known her to fail with the lite bread, though. It was always the same. My mother made a large batch when she baked. She started by emptying a 5 lb. bag of Gold Medal bleached all-purpose flour into a white enameled dish pan, making a well in it and adding wet ingredients (proofed yeast, salt, sugar, melted lard or Crisco, and water) to the well. She stirred flour into the liquid gradually to form a wet dough, which was kneaded mostly in the pan. The dough was set to rise in a greased bowl and after a time punched down and divided by pinching into three portions which were placed in an evil looking roasting pan for the second rise. The baking pan was of folded sheet iron and had one handle replaced by a piece of bailing wire. It was uniformly black from decades of use, and must have dated from the early part of the 20th century if not the latter part of the 19th. Three large loaves fitted across the shorter dimension in the pan. When the dough had risen sufficiently it was baked, in wood-fired stoves in the early years of my recollection and later in the oven of our new electric range after the REA had strung electric lines to our farm. When it came out of the oven she basted the top with melted butter. It was magnificent! It had a fragrance like no other, no bread that I have made myself or bread made by others that I have eaten over the past 40 years or so since I left home. The crumb was white, and elastic. It was fine grained at the bottom of the loaf with larger air bubbles towards the top crust. The taste was totally satisfying. It was fabulous when it still had a bit of the oven's heat clinging to it, enough heat to melt the butter churned from milk from our Jersey cows. It was particularly good toasted in the morning with butter and maybe a bit of blackberry jelly made from berries growing below the pond west of the house, or honey collected from the farm's bee hives. After I left home I missed it so much I bought a book on the subject and started to learn about baking bread. I've learned to make pretty good bread over the years and of late it is getting even better. Just last week I made some sourdough baguettes and as I ate one I thought to myself, "I don't really need to make baguettes any better than this." Still, I miss her bread; as much as I like it, mine has never tasted quite like hers. Ten years ago, when she was still making bread, I watched her mix up a batch and asked how she had learned to make bread. "Did Grandma teach you?" I asked. "No," she said, "I didn't pay much attention to how she made it, but after I had left home I missed Mamma's bread so much I got a recipe and started trying to make bread." "I've made a lot of bread in my day, and it's pretty good," she continued, gazing off into the distance and pausing for a moment before adding, "but it never did taste like hers." Ken McMurtrey Hattiesburg, Mississippi --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n048.17 --------------- From: "Raymond Kenyon" Subject: Shelf Life of flour? Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 02:34:00 -0600 Does flour have a shelf life? I made Semolina/Sesame bread with Durham flour that was about 6 years old and it came out like pancake batter. I don't bake that often, and was wondering if the different flours I store have an expiration date? --------------- END bread-bakers.v103.n048 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2003 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved