Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:08:21 -0700 (MST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v103.n049 -------------- 001 - Reggie Dwork - "An English Loaf" 012 - Ellen Lee - PS re. "An English Loaf" 013 - "Rich Halbert" Subject: list issues Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:33:23 -0800 First, I want to apologize to Randy for the comments made to him on the list. Untested recipes are welcome on the list - I've posted many myself. I have a huge supply of untested recipes. Rather than keep them hidden away, I post them in the hope that someone can make something of them and benefit everyone. I often pull posts - I've pulled jokes, questions that make no sense, etc. I've gotten lax recently due to health issues and have not been reading every post as I should - that will change now. Randy, I'm truly sorry for what happened. Reggie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n049.2 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: IACP scholarships Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:26:59 -0800 Are you seriously considering becoming a culinary professional? Are you a culinary professional interested in continuing education? The International Association of Culinary Professionals (IACP) Foundation 2004-2005 scholarship program is now underway! The IACP Foundation will be accepting applications for their scholarship program between September 15, 2003 and December 15, 2003 (applications must be postmarked by December 15, 2003 to be considered for a scholarship award). The program consists of 21 scholarships with a combined value of over $100,000 to administer! These scholarships are available for study between July 1, 2004 and June 30, 2005. The 2004-2005 Scholarship Information Sheet and the 2004-2005 IACP Foundation Scholarship Application are available from the IACP Foundation website at . The IACP Foundation scholarship program offers scholarship opportunities to beginning students, advanced students, career professionals and for continuing education. The scholarships are available to anyone who meets the qualifications. Those qualifications are as follows: The applicant must have 2 years of foodservice experience (paid, volunteer or a combination of both) If a current student, the applicant will need to provide a transcript showing that their GPA is 3.5 or better. The applicant must write a 2-page essay regarding their focused desire to pursue a culinary career. The applicant must provide two professional letters of recommendation on business letterhead. There is a $25 non-refundable application fee which must be paid in US Dollars. Both international and domestic applications are accepted. These are the basic requirements for the IACP Foundation scholarship program. The scholarships will be administered based on merit and foodservice experience, not financial need. Some scholarships have additional restrictions, it will be important to review the details on the scholarship information sheet to determine which scholarship(s) have additional guidelines. Reggie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n049.3 --------------- From: "renzo_ri" Subject: Allen: Pesky flours and the baguette Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 07:20:45 -0500 Allen wrote: >Since then I've been experimenting with such lower temperatures while >making rustic loaves. My hope is that the lower temperature will allow a >longer baking time and thus more time to drive moisture out of the center >of the loaf (so that the crust doesn't become soggy during cooling). Try baking at your regular higher temp, but when the bread reaches the interior temp you want, shut off the oven, take the bread off the oven stone, if you are using one, put the bread on the top oven rack, and leave the oven door ajar. This slows the cooling process and prevents a soggy crust. renzo --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n049.4 --------------- From: Susan Reinhart Subject: The Pizza Book Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 08:55:11 -0500 Hello From Charlotte, My New Home, Susan and I just moved here from Providence to be part of the new Johnson & Wales campus, set to open next Sept. The move coincides with, at long last, the release of "American Pie: My Search for the Perfect Pizza," to which so many list members (over 100) contributed as recipe testers. On Friday, Nov. 14th we're having the official publication party at J&W in Providence from 5-7 pm in case any of you are nearby I'm still teaching up there till Nov. 20th, and the school has been kind enough to host the party). Once I land down here in Charlotte for good, I'd be happy to send signed copies out like I did for "The Bread Baker's Apprentice" a couple of years ago. I get the book at a discount and will pass it on to you (once you factor in shipping and padded envelopes it isn't much better than Amazon but at least I can sign it and thank you if you were a recipe tester). I should be able to start sending them out by the first week of December. The book lists for about $26, I can send it for $20, (including all taxes, handling, postage, etc.). We should have a PO box by later today so I'll post again with the address asap. This is just a heads up. By the way, Ten Speed Press did another great design job--I love the look and feel of the book. There are not too many pictures but they chose great paper, and gave the book a "deckled edge," which is a rough cut like books of old. The idea was to position it as a literary book rather than just a cook book. Half the book is the story of the "search," which gave me a chance to explore my favorite food-as-metaphor themes. Thank you everyone who participated. This group has been a tremendous support over the years and I've really enjoyed meeting many of you on my travels. I hope you are pleased with the result. Starting in late February I'll be traveling and doing classes from the book, so I'll post the schedule next month in case you'd like to come. Sincerely, Peter Reinhart --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n049.5 --------------- From: "llasser" Subject: Shaping Baguettes w/out flour Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 05:55:16 -0800 Did I miss this on the list? Or would John or Ed post how to do this? I would love to know how to make something other than the 'dusted' look. Lissa --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n049.6 --------------- From: DRogers248@aol.com Subject: Re: My Mother's Bread Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 09:33:56 EST "Kenneth McMurtrey" wrote: >As far back as I can remember my mother made bread. She made three types: >cornbread (always baked in a round cast iron skillet and without sugar, >thank you very much), biscuits, and lite bread. Kenneth, I enjoyed your letter so much! I am from the south and agree very strongly about cornbread not having sugar! LOL I also enjoyed your reference to learning bread baking techniques from our elders. There was a recent discussion on another list I am on and I made the comment how sad it was that the kids of today might not ever taste a homemade biscuit or sadder yet, not watch "old hands" making them. One of my most vivid childhood memories is watching my grandmother making biscuits and giving me just a bite of that raw dough. That taste is so viviidly etched into my mind. To this day, when I make biscuits, I taste the dough and it takes me back to my grandmother's kitchen. Thanks again for sharing. deb* --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n049.7 --------------- From: "Mike Avery" Subject: Re: Shelf Life of flour? Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 09:45:58 -0700 "Raymond Kenyon" asked: >Does flour have a shelf life? I made Semolina/Sesame bread with Durham >flour that was about 6 years old and it came out like pancake batter. I >don't bake that often, and was wondering if the different flours I store >have an expiration date? Yes. The date isn't posted on most brands of flour, and the useful life of flour depends on the kind of flour and how it's stored. The less refined a flour is, such as a whole wheat flour or ground corn, the more oils it has in it, and the quicker it will turn rancid. Refrigerating, or freezing, flour will extend its life expectancy considerably. If a whole grain flour has not been treated with a preservative or frozen, it will deteriorate very quickly. I wouldn't store a whole wheat flour much past 3 to 6 months. If that. When I first got my KitchenAid grain mill, I ground some corn into corn meal and used it at once. It made SUCH a change in the corn bread, I couldn't believe it was the same recipe. The stuff in the store just can't compete. With more highly refined flours, there is less to decompose, however, they do deteriorate. The former owner of a bakery in this area had about 40 sacks of flour stored in a storage locker and wanted me to use them. He swore they were "just fine" even though they were over 4 years old. They weren't. The bread flour and patent flour handled nicely. The breads rose well. The browned well. And tasted rancid. A check on the net suggests that even white flour should be used within a year of the time it's ground. Unground grains are well protected by their husks, and can be stored for centuries, which is why the survivalists and Y2K alarmists stocked up on whole grains. A final comment - there is a chain of bakeries, Great Harvest, that advertises they grind their flour fresh daily, and that their bread is better for it. I've been in a number of disucssions about grinding grain into flour. And a number of people say fresh is best. However, others say that if a flour hasn't been aged about 30 days, it's not fit to use. Which is true? A good question. Further discussion suggests that when the flour is freshly ground and still "wriggling with life", it's fine to use. However, within a day or so, chemical changes make it harder to use. And that continues until the flour has been aged. So, my feeling is if you are going to grind your own flour, use it right away, or age it 30 days... in between could be problematical. Mike -- Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n049.8 --------------- From: Howard Larson Subject: Whole Wheat--No Oven Spring Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:17:20 -0600 Folks, I have a problem getting oven spring for my whole wheat loaves. I don't have this problem with loaves made entirely from AP flour. I even use the cold start method that was written about in this list. The loaves appear to proof normally but there is no rise during the baking. I suspect I need to cut back on the amount of whole wheat flour, but before I start experimenting I would like to get some opinions on alternatives for adjusting the recipe. Here is my recipe for two loaves: 460 gm Bread flour (about 13% protein) 310 gm Whole wheat flour 538 gm Milk, 1% milk fat, 10% milk solids 15 gm Salt 15 gm Sugar 15 gm Oil 7 gm Quick-rise yeast Dough weight: 1360 gm (3 lb) The dough is proofed once then shaped and placed into pans. After second rise it is baked at 375F for 45 to 50 minutes. Howard Larson --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n049.9 --------------- From: Lobo Subject: brewery bread and Pumpkin Bread Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 19:59:18 -0700 A brew pub has recently opened in town and I'm intrigued by the possibility of obtaining their spent grain, mash or, as I keep thinking of it ... dregs for use in bread baking. Has anyone any experience with this? And what do you actually call the leftover grain stuff? I'd appreciate any recipes and advice. Here's a recipe I love as thanks in advance! Lobo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PUMPKIN BREAD one loaf - standard bread pan size 1 c pumpkin 1 1/2 c sugar 2 eggs 1/2 c cooking oil 1 3/4 c flour 1/4 t baking powder 1 t soda 1 t salt 1/2 t cloves 1/2 t cinnamon 1/2 t allspice 1/3 c water 1/2 c nuts (opt) Mix well and add gently: 2 cups frozen raspberries (the loose, bagged type; do not thaw before mixing) (opt) Bake 45-60 minutes at 350F in bread pan. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n049.10 --------------- From: Susan Brigden Subject: Another flaxseed question Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 05:49:56 -0500 I am interested in trying to add ground flaxseed to bread, but my husband does not like whole wheat type bread. Does anyone have a recipe...or experience...adding ground flaxseed to a regular white bread recipe (ok, I can sneak a little bit of whole wheat in and he won't notice!). I'm not trying to add a lot - most of the recipes I've seen start with 1 c of ground seed plus oodles of whole wheat flour. I'm a little reluctant to just add some arbitrarily to an existing recipe as I know you probably need to compensate for the additional oil the seed flour will produce. Susan --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n049.11 --------------- From: Ellen Lee Subject: "An English Loaf" Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 12:05:44 -0500 Dave: Your wife is my kind of shopper! I wish I had found that bread pan before she did. The only bread pans I use are terracotta 8"x4.5" ones, wonderfully seasoned from years of use. I bought them from LL Bean at least a decade, perhaps two decades, ago. They, too, have the exact same inscription printed in black ink on the sides, but they are made by the Henry Watson Pottery, founded in 1800. There is no imprint on the bottoms. I wonder if your wife found a miniature pan that predates the Watson Pottery, which is still in business as far as I know. I would try using the pan for a mini loaf and see how it turns out. If the interior doesn't feel a bit slick, season it before use by greasing it very lightly with solid vegetable shortening and putting it in a 275-300 degree oven for about 45 minutes, then repeat two or three times. These pans aren't glazed, so I think you don't have to worry about lead content. My guess: "an English loaf" refers to any bread that the English might make. Since my ancestry is 100% British Isles, I figure it means anything I want to bake in it. Ellen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n049.12 --------------- From: Ellen Lee Subject: PS re. "An English Loaf" Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 12:20:42 -0500 I did a Google search for Wattisfield Ware Suffolk, and I got a website for a tour agency that takes tourists to the Henry Watson Potteries. The impression on the bottom of your wife's pan may indicate that it is newer than my pans are but that it is made by the same company. From other websites that popped up, I gather that Wattisfield and Suffolk have been famous for pottery for centuries. Interesting. Ellen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n049.13 --------------- From: "Rich Halbert" Subject: Pain a l'Ancienne Proofing Box Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:15:00 -0500 I make this bread a lot but have modified my method a bit from Peter with some help from Ed Okie. I don't mix much nor knead-2 minutes total with KitchenAid mixing paddle-not the dough hook. Then, thanks to Ed, I form the loaves cold. This means that they warm and proof for 2-3 hours. Previously I covered them with a kitchen towel (actually a light one, or so I thought) but I observed that the towel was inhibiting any rise that would occur. Here's the BEST PART. If you belong to COSTCO Wholesale club they are currently selling a package of 2 11" x 17" half sheet pans with a roasting rack/cooling rack and a pair of plastic lids for about $12. If you put the plastic lids on the pan they are perfect for 3 loaves (the long way) to proof and warm without being mashed with a towel. Put the loaves on parchment and slide them into the pan (not on the back side as before), cover and wait. Later, Rich-in-NC --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n049.14 --------------- From: RCannetoAL@aol.com Subject: Why wheat gluten? Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:49:31 EST Hello! I wander if anyone can tell me what wheat gluten contributes to a bread dough. I visited Kenyon's Grist Mill and bought some different flours and wheat gluten. How do I use it? Thanks, Rose --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n049.15 --------------- From: "Kenneth G. Sivulich" Subject: Bread Baker's Apprentice Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:37:05 -0500 Rich in NC mentions that the recipe for "Pain a l'Ancienne" would be available only by buying Peter Reinhart's Bread Baker's Apprentice or finding a newspaper article in which the recipe is reprinted. Actually there is at least one other way--find the book in your local public library. My own library owns eight copies of this book. Ken Sivulich Director Jacksonville Public Library --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n049.16 --------------- From: "Steven Leof" Subject: Clear flour Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:19:55 -0000 Thanks for your note Ed: >... so-called "clear" flour is, well... not clear, but simply ordinary ol' >whole wheat flour that has been sifted, most of the (brown) bran removed >(the somewhat bitter part). Clear flour is made up of a selection of the individual flour streams that are left after the production of patent flour (extra white, low-ash flour). Clear flour is relatively high-ash (approximately 0.75-0.80%) with a protein content of 13-15%% when milled from a hard winter-spring wheat blend. It is this flour that is used for breads such as NY Deli Rye. And that I am having a hard time sourcing in the UK. Although you are sifting out the larger bran particles, I doubt that your sifted whole wheat flour is the same as clear flour. This would be because the composition of your flour after it's been sifted would differ from clear flour in that the patent flour hasn't also been removed. But I am an amateur and am theorising. Perhaps one of the professionals on the list will see this and send a well articulated response.... Regards Steven Leof --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n049.17 --------------- From: "Steven Leof" Subject: Clear flour storage Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:29:53 -0000 Ed, if you store clear flour, whole wheat flour and wheat germ, etc. in an airtight container in the refrigerator you shouldn't have to worry about spoilage. Regards, Steven Leof --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n049.18 --------------- From: Mary Stackhouse Subject: viking stand mixers Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:19:50 -0500 Hello all, I am very happy to have found this site and to see that there are a lot of bakers out there. I had the opportunity to apprentice under a german baker and a french pastry chef for about 3 years, 20 years ago at Susanne Naegele bakery in Northampton, Massachusetts. There is a lot to be said for traditional apprenticeship study. I have been plugging away, unaided ever since. This is a great list and I am glad that there are so many bakers - professional and non - who participate. I live in a Zen temple so there are always a lot to feed and all of my experiments get eaten. I love to make bread by hand but usually due to the volume of dough I work with, I use a mixer. I have noticed that there is a new mixer out that is being advertised in the cooking catalogues that I get made by Viking in a 5 and 7 quart size. I came across some previous discussion on the new Kitchenaid mixers a while back. I have a commercial kitchenaid mixer that I acquired in 1990 that works great and I have been able to do 4 dough batches back to back without a problem. I could probably due more, but I just have never tried. I also have a Magic mill mixer that was given to me as a gift that I can mix larger batches of dough in - using 14 cups of flour (I can fit in more flour, but it starts to get messy), but I don't think it kneads the dough very well. When Kitchenaid came out with their larger model, I acquired one. I had used it a few times when it just died in the middle of mixing a batch of dough. I took it to be repaired and was informed that the motor died. It was replaced under warrantee. The next time I used it, it happened again and the motor was again replaced. The repair people told me that the new Kitchenaid mixers had a different kind of motor that in their opinion wasn't very good. The motors are stated to have a higher wattage, but they are smaller and overheat quicker. They told me that the older models were much better and that the new models were basically garbage. This is probably old news to a lot of you but I thought I would retell my story for anyone who is new and hasn't had a chance to research all the older postings. Anyway, has anyone used the new Viking mixers? Mary Stackhouse --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n049.19 --------------- From: "Purrfleece Farms" Subject: Hearty Breadstick Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:00:26 -0600 For years my wife was the baker in the family, working first by hand and then switching to machine as she lost strength. She passed away in May of this year and there has been no home-made bakery products until this morning when I made up a batch of breadsticks using the recipe in the latest issue of BHG for a community potluck for lunch today. Now I need a more flavorful recipe for a Master Gardener's dinner in December. Does anyone have a recipe using fresh rosemary (the plant is beside the kitchen door) and perhaps dried tomatoes that would make a hardy breadstick. Thanks for your help. Rich Richard Boosey Purrfleece Farms Jacob and Shetland Sheep and Crosses pfarms@alltel.net --------------- END bread-bakers.v103.n049 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2003 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved