Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 01:28:44 -0700 (MST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v104.n007 -------------- 001 - Maggie Glezer - Re: Fry bread recipe needed 011 - The Pitner Ohana - Polish sour rye 016 - "Steven Leof" Subject: Poison waffle dough, flavorful breads, a whole wheat recipe Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 07:43:56 -0500 Hello Mary, Larry Klevans, and Everyone Else, First, I would like to respond to the poisoning concern with my overnight waffle recipe. I have made the recipe many times for my kids and family and haven't lost anyone yet. This is such a time honored method of food preparation-the slow fermentations of dairy products with some kind of starter--that I had never been concerned about it. I keep meaning to contact the experts at American Institute of Baking to find out the exact microbiology, and will hopefully do that this week and let everyone know the answer. I appreciate all the positive responses, but I also think that questioning recipes is a good thing. To Mary, who would like to know how to more intensely flavor fast rising breads: Do what the Europeans do - bake your breads until they are extremely dark. Flavor in bread comes from three main areas, the flour, its fermentation, and the browning reaction. The browning reaction is really critical to rich bread flavor and can make up for many other sins. So use the best flour you can buy, make your favorite crusty-style bread using about 1 to 1 1/2 teaspoons instant yeast per pound of flour, and give it an extra long and intense bake on a baking stone. Prof. Calvel's rule was always "bake it until you think it's done then give it 10 minutes more." I think you will be amazed. Let me know if you need such a recipe. Finally to Larry Klevans, the following recipe will appear in my new (so far unnamed) book about challah and other traditional Jewish Breads. It's my own recipe, unlike a lot in this book, which I have collected from bakers. I would love to hear how it works out for people. Slow Rise Whole-Wheat Challah Skill level: intermediate Yields: 2 one-and a quarter-pound (600 g) breads Time required: about 20 hours, with about 8 hours required on baking day Recipe synopsis: Make a preferment and let it ferment for 8 to 12 hours. Mix the dough, let the dough rise for 4 1/2 hours, shape the dough and let the loaves proof for 2 hours. Bake the bread for 1 hour. If you enjoy more experimental bread baking, this is a really fun recipe and it makes a tangy, egg-free, crusty challah. The evening before baking, you make a pre-ferment - a sort of starter - adding only a tiny amount of yeast to flour and water. The next morning, you mix a dough adding no additional yeast, using only the pre-ferment as a leaven. The dough ferments very slowly and develops a rich acidity similar in flavor to a very light sourdough that beautifully enhances the whole-wheat flour's flavor. This is another bread that needs a long, hot bake for the best flavor and crust. I have included a starch glaze in keeping with the recipe's egg-less-ness. Whole-wheat flour varies tremendously from mill to mill, so be prepared to adjust the dough's consistency. Be sure the flour you use has been recently milled - it goes rancid very quickly - and check its protein content: it should be between 13-14%, or 4 g protein per 30 g serving on the nutritional label. Whole white-wheat flour is much lighter and sweeter than the heartier, more astringent whole red-wheat flour (ordinary whole-wheat flour), and is often enjoyed even by picky eaters. For the Pre-Ferment 1/8 teaspoon yeast 1/3 cup plus 2 tablespoons (100 g, 3.5 oz) warm water About 1 1/4 cups (160 g, 6 oz) bread flour For the Final Dough About 3 2/3 cups (500 g, 17.6 oz) whole-wheat flour 1 1/2 cups (350 g, 12 oz) water All the preferment 2 1/4 teaspoons (14 g, 0.5 oz) table salt 1/4 cup (55 g, 1.9 oz) oil 1 tablespoon (20 g, 0.7 oz) mild honey Or 2 tablespoons (20 g, 0.7 oz) brown sugar For the Cornstarch or Potato Starch Glaze 1/3 cup (80 ml) cold water 1 teaspoon (5 ml) cornstarch or potato starch THE EVENING BEFORE BAKING MIXING THE PRE-FERMENT The evening before baking, sprinkle the yeast over the water, and then whisk it in. Let the yeast rehydrate for 5 minutes, then stir in the flour. Knead this firm dough until it is smooth. Place the dough in a small container and seal it with its lid or plastic wrap. Let the pre-ferment ferment until it has tripled in volume and is just starting to deflate, about 8-12 hours. BAKING DAY MIXING THE AUTOLYSE In the work bowl of a stand mixer, add the whole-wheat flour and, using the paddle attachment, stir in the warm water using low speed until the dough is well combined. Let the dough autolyse, covered, for 20 minutes. MIXING THE DOUGH Add the pre-ferment, the salt, oil, honey or sugar to the dough and mix the dough with a dough hook on medium speed for about 5 minutes, or until it cleans the sides of the bowl and is very smooth. Add at least a tablespoon or two of water if the dough is very firm, or at least a tablespoon or two of flour if the dough is impossibly sticky and does not clean the sides of the bowl. Because whole-wheat flour is so variable, be prepared to adjust the consistency of the dough. This dough should feel very sticky initially, then become smooth, soft, dry and easy to knead after sufficient kneading. FERMENTING THE DOUGH Place the dough in the clean warm bowl and cover it with plastic wrap. Let the dough ferment for about 4 1/2 hours or until it doubles in bulk. SHAPING AND PROOFING THE DOUGH Cover a large baking sheet with parchment paper or oil it. Divide the dough in half, braid or shape them as desired, position them seam-side down on the prepared sheet or cake pans, and cover them well with plastic wrap. Let the loaves proof for about 2 hours, or until they triple in bulk. One hour before baking the bread, position an oven rack on the second to top shelf and remove all shelves above it. If making free-form loaves: place a baking stone or a second baking sheet on it and preheat the oven to 425 F (220 C, gas mark 7). BAKING THE LOAVES When the loaves have tripled, do not push back when gently pressed with your finger but remain indented, they are ready to bake. Spray or paint them with water, then bake them for about 60 minutes. After 40 minutes of baking, switch the loaves from side to side so that the breads brown evenly. When the loaves are very well browned, remove them from the oven and let them cool on a rack. PREPARING THE GLAZE AND GLAZING THE BAKED BREADS As the breads are baking, combine the starch and cold water in a small pan. Heat the mixture over low heat until it boils, thickens and clarifies. The glaze should be thick but spreadable; add a tablespoon or two of water if you need to thin it. The glaze can also be microwaved on high power for 1 minute. Whisk it, and then cook it for 15 seconds more or until clear. When the loaves are just out of the oven, brush them with a thin layer of the glaze. As soon as it is dry, brush them with a second layer of glaze for a high shine. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n007.2 --------------- From: "Ryan Coffey" Subject: Cheap(er) Bannetons? Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 08:40:01 -0500 Iwas wondering if folks had any info about where to find cheap wicker or plastic bannetons? I live in the Ann Arbor, MI area and couldn't find anything around here. The best prices I was able to find on the web was at TMB baking in San Francisco: . I haven't ordered from them yet and thought folks on the list might have good resources they could share. Thanks for the help. Ryan PS. If you live near a Cost Plus World Market they have a round and rectuangular shaped basket lined with cloth that work really well for about $7 USD, that fit a 2lb loaf nicely. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n007.3 --------------- From: Lobo Subject: re: Looking for Bread Recipes to Jibe w/ Anti-Migraine Diet. Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:32:31 -0700 > From: "Mary" snip > I am now hoping to find a couple of serviceable yeast bread recipes that > have a shorter rise time. So far, I have not found a shorter-rise recipe snip > any of you have a good recipe to share for shorter-rise bread? Any tips > on improving flavor without extending the ferment time? This has always been a great recipe. Since I discovered I could grind grains in the coffee grinder for bread, I haven't made it much. It's a really good basic white bread, but to add flavor you can add a cup or 2 of whole wheat flour, or maybe wheat germ, oat bran, rye flakes, etc. without affecting its quick rising ability. My sister and I always won the purple ribbons in 4-H when we made this (back in the 60s). 4-H CHAMPION BREAD Makes 4 loaves Mix together and let sit 5-10 minutes: 2 pkg yeast 1/2 cup warm water When yeast has puffed, add: 4 cups warm water 4 1/2 T. melted shortening 3/4 cup dry milk (optional) 1/4 cup + 2 T. sugar 2 T. salt 5 cups flour* Allow to sit for 15 minutes. Add flour to make soft, non-sticky, dough (about 7 c.) Knead dough, adding enough flour so it's not sticky. The more flour you knead in, the denser the bread will be. Let dough rise until double in size. Punch down and turn onto board. Divide into four parts. Shape into loaves and place in bread pans. Let rise until double in size. Bake at 350 F for 40 minutes. *At this point, you may add oat bran, wheat germ, oat flour, whole wheat flour, rice flour or any other desired ingredient. Measurement isn't critical, although various flours and brans will change the texture of the bread accordingly. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n007.4 --------------- From: "Sonia Martinez" Subject: Special Bakeries in Hawaii? Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 07:21:23 -1000 Jay, I'm not familiar with the bakeries in Oahu since I live on the Big Island, but another member of this list lives there and might know. I'll let Larry Geller reply to you about it....but if you come to the Big Island, on Hilo side we have a very good artisan baker, Jim O'Keefe of O'Keefe & Sons. I'm sure Jim would be delighted to have you drop by and "talk story" with him. Sonia --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n007.5 --------------- From: "Sonia Martinez" Subject: Overnight milk fermentation Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 07:32:44 -1000 Like John, Jazzbel and Roxanne, I too have made overnight milk fermentation products for years with no adverse reactions. I have made the pancake/waffle mixture, créme frâiche and the Amish Friendship Bread many times....I still make créme frâiche in quantities every two weeks and use for personal use, catering or in my cooking classes without fear Sonia --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n007.6 --------------- From: "Joyce" Subject: low carb wraps Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:21:17 -0600 Does anyone have any idea how to duplicate or improve on the low carb wraps used by the Subway sandwich shop chain? I am only a machine bread maker but I did like these low carb pockets. Any insights or help would be appreciated. Joyce --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n007.7 --------------- From: RosesCakeBible@aol.com Subject: Re: broadcast sched and 100% whole wheat Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:33:29 EST >Rose, > >Do you have dates and times for when your series BAKING MAGIC WITH ROSE >LEVY BERANBAUM will be appearing on KCTS-PBS? > >Thanks Dave Glaze the many pbs affiliates around the country all independently choose to air a show when their scheduling permits. i think april is the most likely time it will begin but best to contact your local pbs station in early march as they will be receiving the show from pbs late february. >Many of us bread bakers/eaters and now on low(er) carbohydrate diets which >eschews anything but whole grain breads. Does anyone have any recipes for >flavorful whole grain breads? > >Larry from Maryland i have to eat my words about finding 100% wholewheat bread undesirable. after being on tour in chicago, on the moody bible radio station, a listener immediately e-mailed me urging me to try prarie gold 100% white whole wheat and though of course the grain is compact compared to one using a high proportion of white wheat, the flavor was fantastic--wheaty/nutty--especially so because i made it from fresh-ground whole white wheat. bread baking sure teaches one to be open-minded. i'm posting all these new discoveries on my website: under the Q & A (i capitalized the "A" because everyone puts in "e" even when they KNOW it's "a" and then, of course, the site won't come up! incidentally, now, not only am i addicted to baking bread, i'm also addicted to reading "the list" every week! best, rose PS: prairie gold is available from heartland mill www.heartlandmill.com 800-232-8533 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n007.8 --------------- From: William Waller Subject: anti-migraine bread Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:56:34 -0600 Mary, Paul Pitchford's recently revised book "Healing With Whole Foods: Asian Traditions and Modern Nutrition" has an interesting discussion on the health impact of using yeast vs. natural leaveners. You have to wade through quite a bit of Chinese and Ayurvedic philosophy and diagnostics but that's not the worst experience one can have. Pitchford has good information, backed by science, on yeast, sugar, and calcium metabolism. Your library probably has a copy. Before you give up the good life and revert to quick bread, you might wish to try "lean" sour dough or naturally leavened bread. Because the starter is different from yeast, and there is no sugar, oil or dairy, it may not generate the fermentation byproduct that is troubling you. Peter Reinhart via "The Baker's Apprentice" has the most current and comprehensive discussion on it. I gave up yeast breads for levains years ago. There is a difference. Good luck. Will Waller --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n007.9 --------------- From: Wcsjohn@aol.com Subject: Mary - short fermantation and flavour Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:24:11 EST Mary The most effective ingredient for producing good flavour in the shortest possible time is a small (2 - 5% of total flour weight) amount of rye flour. If you use a high-yeast, short time preferment you can get surprisingly good results. The recipe that follows takes 8 hours form start to removing the loaves from the oven and there's a 4 hour prefement in there. I've had excellent results from as little as 1 hours preferment in a warm kitchen. I append the recipe for my 1 day Ciabatta for you to use as a basis for experiment. 1 Day Ciabatta Sightly enriched, rustic dough, indirect method, ca. 8 hours elapsed time to make. Yield 4 medium Ciabatta loaves and 12 fat rolls. POOLISH 475 gm 12% or more protein content white flour 25 gm rye 700 gm hot water, 2 teaspoons instant yeast* Mix all ingredients and whisk until smooth and showing elasticity, loosely cover and leave on counter 4 hours, fermentation will be vigorous. DOUGH The poolish 500 gm white flour as above 20 gm salt 6 tablespoons dried milk 2 tablespoons olive oil Whisk the oil into the poolish, make a well of the dry ingredients on the counter and rough mix, the dough will be sticky. Using one hand and a bench knife in the other grab the dough with your fingers, pull straight up and let slap down onto the counter. Keep doing this until the dough is very elastic, takes me 2-3 minutes. The dough should be stretching 12-18 inches and reasonably smooth but it doesn't have to be perfectly smooth.** Sprinkle a little flour over the dough and counter and gather the dough together, it is very soft but coherent and elastic. Stretch and fold 4 times at 10 minute intervals. Leave, well floured, covered, on the counter to double. Without knocking down cut the dough into 8 pieces. Divide 4 of the pieces into 3 making the 12 rolls. Stretch and fold each piece to a fat roll or loaf. proof en couche, seam side up to double and very wobbly Bake the rolls first, inverted, at your oven's top temperature immediately turned down to 220C, about 10 minutes, internal temp 94C. While the rolls are baking, stretch the large dough pieces into the correct Ciabatta shape and leave, still seam side up, to recover, while the rolls finish and the oven heats up to top whack again. Bake inverted as for the rolls, about 20 minutes, same internal temp. So light it almost flies. Put the poolish on in the morning, Ciabatta for supper or dinner. *Yes, 2 teaspoons is a hell of a lot for a poolish but it's a short preferment and there's no extra yeast in the main dough. ** You could, with equal effect run it through a heavy duty mixer with a dough hook at MEDIUM speed for 5 minutes or so. John --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n007.10 --------------- From: Rob Subject: Re: Fry bread recipe needed Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 21:57:39 -0800 This is the one I use. Rob `````````````` Fry Bread 6 cup flour 2 tablespoon baking powder 1 1/2 teaspoon salt 1 tablespoon sugar 2 1/2 cup water; warm vegetable oil In large bowl, mix together all ingredients except water and oil. Add water in half cup increments and mix with hands. Dough should be easy to handle, not too dry or too sticky. If sticky, add small portions of flour and continue to mix. If dry, add water as needed. Preheat 10-inch skillet with 2 to 3 inches of vegetable oil or shortening over medium-high heat. Test oil by dropping drops of water into skillet. When water starts to crackle, oil is ready for frying. Divide dough into 4 equal pieces. Divide each piece into 4 or 5 equal-size pieces. With hands, form each piece into ball and flatten into 6- to 8-inch circles, pinching a small hole in center of each circle. (this helps it cook evenly in the center, and the hole disappears when it puffs.). Place into hot oil. Fry until golden brown, then turn over. Dough should rise 2 inches when frying. Fry until golden brown on other side. Remove to paper towels to absorb excess grease. Makes 16 to 20 6 inch fry breads --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n007.11 --------------- From: The Pitner Ohana Subject: Re: Special Bakeries in Hawaii? Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 23:02:50 -1000 Hmmn...There are several to check out, depending on what you're wanting to have. If you want to have French pastries, I'd recommend JJ French Pastry on Waialae Avenue, they makes a fabulous dessert called a "chocolate pyramid" that is to die for along with other lovely little pastries. Nearby JJ is a Portuguese bakery, called Leonard's. I don't enjoy their cakes, but they make really great malasadas - doughnuts without the hole - that are fried and rolled in sugar. Their sweet bread is also yummy. There are several Japanese owned French inspired bakeries that make decent bread, on is St Germaine's, which you will find in a Japanese department store at the Ala Moana Shopping Center. They have a large variety of things to try. Don't forget to go upstairs and have a Japanese "pancake" filled with custard! There is also another bakery upstairs in the same store, it's called Dee-Lite and they make wonderful cakes! Guava chiffon is my personal favorite. There is a little bakery in Nu'uanu that makes wonderful cocoa puffs, basically pate a choux shells filled with chocolate cream and iced with a chantilly frosting that is only available in the islands. Everyone on the mainland was puzzled when I asked at the bakeries, and I have since found out that it is only a Hawaii thing! It's a mixture of egg yolks, evaporated milk, sugar, and vanilla, cooked until thick. I'll post the recipe if anyone is interested, or if there are homesick Hawaiians on this list =0)! I live in Kailua where we have Agnes' Bakery, another Portuguese bakery/cafe. There sweets are decent, and the Portuguese bean soup is great! Napoleon's Bakery at any of the Zippy's restaraunts (several locations around the island) makes fab turnovers. We took my hubby's aunt there when she was visiting and she bought two cherry turnovers on the way to the beach. On the way home from the beach she asked if we could stop and buy more so she could have them on the plane ride home to CA. That's all I can think of for the moment, feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions! Aloha, wen from Sunny Kailua --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n007.12 --------------- From: "Chalon, Grace" Subject: Breadman machine Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:09:39 -0600 Hi, I received a Breadman machine as a Christmas gift from my family. I have not yet successfully made a loaf of bread. I keep trying the same recipe, changing yeasts, purchasing new flour, trying on a timer setting. Each loaf comes out similar (and inedible). They don't rise. I've tested my yeasts. I started with the Red Star I had in my freezer, then bought packets of SAF yeast. They all seem active.... I thought by trying the same recipe with different ingredients I would determine if the yeast were the problem. I'm using a recipe from the Breadman instruction booklet for "French bread," which calls for flour, salt, sugar and olive oil. My house is warm (headed slightly for a North Texas winter), no drafts in my kitchen. What should I try next? Thanks, Grace --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n007.13 --------------- From: "Joan & Larry Ross" Subject: re Danish Abelskiver Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:59:48 -0500 I enjoyed the Danish Abelskiver recipe using yeast and would like to include it at my web page ( Dave. I lost your email, please E-mail me ) as I have 10 shared recipes posted ( many variations of baking powder based ) with tips and trick to make them. At my site are also the unusual recipes abelskiver filled, abelskiver made with beer etc. They can be found at my Potpourri of Recipes at this site. http://www.pipeline.com/~rosskat/wizzx.html However, here are 2 very easy recipes sent to me for beginners. Easy-to-do Aebleskiver #1 1/2 pkg. yellow cake mix 1 cup water 1 egg 1/4 cup flour Butter or margarine Confectioners' sugar Combine cake mix, water, egg and flour. Blend on low speed. Beat two minutes at medium speed. Place a small amount of butter or margarine in each cup of Aebleskiver Pan. Heat pan slightly; fill cups 2/3 full with batter. Cook until bubbly; turn carefully turn carefully with fork and finish baking on other side. Easy to do Aebleskiver #2 3 cups prepared biscuit mix 2 Tbs. salad oil 1 1/2 cups milk 1 egg Add salad oil, milk, and egg to biscuit mix and beat ntil smooth. Bake as directed above in first recipe. Enjoy Joan --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n007.14 --------------- From: Eric and Johanna Bakken Subject: Ideas/Advice for large quantity baking Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 22:49:47 -0500 I've been approached to bake for a health food store. They have a small cafe and adequate space to bake. As I'm considering how all this could work, I have a few questions for you all. To begin with, I'd just bring in my 325 watt Kitchen Aid, which I usually stuff with 8 cups of flour max. To make baking worth my time and the store's I think that I'd need to make at least 10 loaves of bread. At 3 cups of flour for a 1 1/2 pound loaf, that's 4 batches. Advice on baking 4 batches in a row? Keeping things organized? Preparing ahead of time. (I am trying to fit it into a 3-4 block of time) I can just picture the shuffling around. Maybe it will be best, I don't know...any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Next question: I want to do a run through after you all weigh in on this, so I bought a cheapo bag of flour from Costco (I usually bake with fresh ground wheat). Since I never bake with straight white flour, I don't have a recipe I like or know...Does anyone have a SIMPLE white bread recipe they like and use often. Thanks all, Eric Bakken Cedarkirk Camp and Conference Center Lithia, FL --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n007.15 --------------- From: "silky" Subject: Polish sour rye Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:13:29 -0800 Hi, I'm new here and I am thoroughly enjoying the conversation! I wish it happened more than once a week. After several years break from bread baking (health and family) I am back at it and trying not to go off in every direction that beckons at once. My main focus at this time is learning to make the real 100% rye sourdough bread as the Eastern Europeans make. I have not been able to find a recipe that isn't Americanized with a lot of white flour. I'm not familiar with rye so I have no idea what proportions work. Can anyone help with a recipe or pointers? I have been told that I won't be able to make this type of bread because so many of the variables are different here. I would like to understand the theory so I can choose ingredients that will come as close as possible. I was also told that a wood-fired oven is critical. If this is true, how? Is it really the brick lining? I grew up with a wood stove and unless you have a good supply of the right wood, a wood stove will not give as even a heat as a newer oven. Wheat flour can have different protein levels, does rye flour vary the same way? There doesn't seem to be much rye flour available so I hope it doesn't matter too much. I have also seen some rye recipes calling for "whole bran cereal", any idea what that is referring to? One called for "baker's bran". Colleen in NE Calif. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n007.16 --------------- From: "Steven Leof" Subject: Flour suppliers Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:54:27 -0000 Hello Max, have you found any more good sources of flour in the UK? Perhaps we should prevail on Reggie to publish a list of mills in America and the UK on the web site. Are you aware of any web sites that publish such a list, etc. Regards Steven Leof --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n007.17 --------------- From: "s.reinhart" Subject: Change of date for Franklin/Nashville class Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:44:18 -0500 Sorry about this change but the Pizza class at the Viking Culinary Center in Franklin, near Nashville, has been changed from May 6th to May 3rd. I hope this doesn't cause any problems for those of you planning to come, and I look forward to seeing some of you there. Sincerely, Peter Reinhart --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n007.18 --------------- From: Jessica Weissman Subject: Sourdough, the RLB book, and medium rye flour Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 05:31:35 -0500 I had several home-generated starters bomb out, die out, or just be wimpy. Finally I bought the King Arthur starter, and have had no trouble since. Over time its characteristics have drifted a bit, but it is still strong and reliable. Well worth the low cost and the minor dent in my baker's pride. As for the Rose Levy Beranbaum book, nearly all of the errata listed are easy for an experienced baker to spot. Where I've had trouble is that some of the flour weights seem off. 11 or 12 ounces for two cups of flour is pretty high. Not sure whether that was a misprint or an author error, but when I went back to measuring the flour instead of weighing I got good results again. I've had some great successes with her recipes, and a few duds. I've even been able to double the single-loaf yields successfully - one loaf is not enough product from all that time and gas, at least not for me. Now for a question: has anybody in the Washington DC area been able to find Pillsbury Medium Rye flour or any other brand of rye that is not wholegrain with lots of bran? A couple of chains carried it as recently as November, but I have not seen it since. Alternatively, does anyone have a mail order source for rye flour in bulk? I know KA carries a rye blend, but I don't want to pay shipping for it. Many thanks, Jessica Weissman --------------- END bread-bakers.v104.n007 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2004 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved