Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 00:42:01 -0700 (MST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v104.n008 -------------- 001 - Karen Trepte Subject: Sesame Honey Oatmeal Bread Date: Feb 4, 2004 3:53 PM Bread Machine Sesame Honey Oatmeal Bread from Beth Hensperger's "The Pleasure of Whole-Grain Breads" 1 1/2 pound loaf 1 1/4 cups water 3 tablespoons butter, melted 1/4 cup honey 3 cups bread flour (NOTE below) 1/2 cup rolled oats 1 1/2 tablespoons sesame seeds 3 teaspoons vital wheat gluten 1 teaspoon salt 2 teaspoons bread machine yeast Rolled oats for sprinkling 1 pound loaf 3/4 cup water 2 tablespoons butter,melted 3 tablespoons honey 2 cups bread flour (NOTE below) 1/3 cup rolled oats 1 tablespoon sesame seeds 2 teaspoons vital wheat gluten 1/2 teaspoon salt 1 1/2 t yeast Rolled oats for sprinkling Note: I use 1 cup of whole wheat flour and 2 cups Savannah Mills in NY white w/wheat germ flour for the large recipe. Use 2/3 c w/w and 1 1/3 c white flour for the smaller recipe. 1) Place all of the ingredients, except the oats for sprinkling, in the pan according to the manufacturer's instructions. Set crust on medium and program for the basic bread or delayed time bake cycle; press Start. After the rise, carefully lift the lid and sprinkle with the rolled oats. Close the lid and continue the cycle. 2) After the baking cycle ends, remove the bread from the pan and place on a rack to cool to room temperature. Enjoy and look for her book if you like whole grains. It's really a great one. No personal affiliation just appreciation. Karen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.2 --------------- From: fred smith Subject: Re: Looking for medium rye flour Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 08:44:30 -0500 I'm not in the WDC area, sorry, but I felt I had to chime in anyway. I've been using King Arthur's "pumpernickel" flour in recipes that call for medium rye, with great success. The label on the bag says "medium rye flour" and lists no other ingredients. It isn't dark or strongly flavored, and is fairly finely ground. I do buy it online, though. I don't know if any stores carry it. Here in New England, Shaws supermarkets carry several different kinds of flour, though, sometimes several varieties of KA flours. They also have several varieties of flour from "Hogdson's mill" (that may not be spelled right), which includes a nice medium rye, though theirs is coarsely ground. ---- Fred Smith -- fredex@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.3 --------------- From: Bev C Subject: breadman bread not rising Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 07:58:22 -0600 Grace, Since you've tried two kinds of yeast, the lack of a rise is probably not your yeast. With a bread machine, I've found that strict adherence to recipes doesn't always work. I've had several bread machines including a Breadman and generally got decent bread out of all of them. Here's what I would try: Don't be afraid to open the lid and see what's going on. About 10 minutes into the knead cycle, look inside and test the consistency of your bread dough. You don't want a hard ball, but rather a soft, pliable one. Most of my failures have resulted from too much flour and I find it's better to err on the side of a too-wet dough than a too-dry one. How are you measuring ingredients? Some folks swear by the scoop and scrape method and others prefer the stir and spoon method of measuring flour. I use a scale. Are you using bread flour or regular all-purpose flour? Bread flour has a higher gluten content and makes much better bread. That said, you should still be getting "some" rise from all purpose. If your dough seems fine during the knead cycle, check again at the rise. You won't want to look often at this stage, lest you cool off the dough too much but a brief peek or two never seemed to hurt mine. Stick your hand under the lid and make sure it's warming up correctly - your heating element just might be defective. Touch the dough as well and make sure it's not gotten too dry or hard. This may not be true, but I've heard that contact with the salt inactivates the yeast, so try putting your salt where it won't have direct contact with the yeast. Keep trying and you'll get a perfect loaf unless the machine has problems. Bev C --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.4 --------------- From: RosesCakeBible@aol.com Subject: Re: Digest bread-bakers.v104.n007 Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:05:42 EST i wrote this last week - the corrections are in parenthesis: "i have to eat my words about finding 100% wholewheat bread undesirable. after being on tour in chicago, on the moody bible radio station, a listener immediately e-mailed me urging me to try prairie gold 100% white whole wheat and though of course the grain (sorry--i meant crumb) is compact (dense) compared to one using a high proportion of white wheat, the flavor was fantastic--wheaty/nutty--especially so because i made it from fresh-ground whole white wheat." Jessica Weissman wrote: "As for the Rose Levy Beranbaum book, nearly all of the errata listed are easy for an experienced baker to spot. Where I've had trouble is that some of the flour weights seem off. 11 or 12 ounces for two cups of flour is pretty high. Not sure whether that was a misprint or an author error, but when I went back to measuring the flour instead of weighing I got good results again." please refer to the chart on page 570 for weights of different types of flour. i list bread flour as 5.5 ounces which means that yes indeed 2 cups weigh 11 ounces. the problem is that no two people measure the same way and therefore a cup of flour will vary in weight depending on who is measuring it. that is why i personally don't use volume. however, this is incidental, because since i developed the recipes by weight, if you bake by weight, the ratio of ingredients will all be in balance. and since i also offer the percentage of water contained in each recipe, which you can figure out on your own as well simply by dividing the total weight of the water by the total weight of the flour, you can choose the amount of hydration you personally may prefer. on the other hand, if you bake by volume (cup measurement) you will always find yourself needing to adjust the dough after mixing it. "I've had some great successes with her recipes, and a few duds." i'd love to know which ones were great successes and as for these duds, i'm sure everyone on the list would appreciate knowing which they are so that they can avoid them! reMaggie Glezer's whole wheat challah: can't wait to make it--i've tried other of maggie's recipes using this technique of very little yeast and long rise and adore it. this one sounds wonderful! i find myself wondering if my great grandmother rose, in russia, used wholewheat for her challah! (that would be over 100 years ago.) best, Rose --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.5 --------------- From: "Jill Farrimond" Subject: Madeiran honey cake recipe request Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:21:21 -0000 Dear all, I have just been sent a delicious cake from the island of Madeira which was simply called honey cake. I would really like to make some of my own as the cake was a delicious moist, spicy, dense textured cake with fruit and nuts. I don't think there was actually any honey in the cake but the picture on the wrapper showed a big sugar cane plant. The cake is leavened with yeast but it is really not like a bread. I have only found one recipe which was so vague I would be hesitant to try it - one of those that has a lot of quantities that are simply 'add enough' - fine if you know what you are doing. Any help would be really welcome Jill Newcastle, England --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.6 --------------- From: Lois Silverman Subject: Breadman Machine Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 14:53:15 -0500 Grace wrote: >I received a Breadman machine as a Christmas gift from my family. I have >not yet successfully made a loaf of bread. I keep trying the same recipe, >changing yeasts, purchasing new flour, trying on a timer setting. Each >loaf comes out similar (and inedible). They don't rise. I've been using a Breadman for years--never had a problem with it BUT my bil used one and never got a good bread. He bought a new machine and he still hasn't gotten a good loaf. His problem--I deduced--was he didn't measure his ingredients properly--he used a liquid measure to measure dry ingredients and never got the right amounts. Question here is--forgive me, no insult intended but I am a computer techie/troubleshooter so I take nothing for granted-- 1) did you measure the ingredients properly 2) did you put the liquid ingredients in first and then the dry and then the yeast? If you've done the above, then you may have to get in touch with Breadman--good luck and may the Lord help you! 8-) Lois Silverman LTsilver@adelphia.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.7 --------------- From: "Gene Haldas" Subject: English Muffin Bread Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:21:17 -0800 Here is a copy of the recipe for English Muffin Bread I baked using a Breadman Ultimate machine. The texture and taste were fine , however the center of the bread caved in. I wonder what I might have done wrong to cause this. 1 1/2 cups warm water 3 tablespoons sugar 1 1/2 teaspoon salt 3 1/2 cups bread flower 1/4 cup non fat dry milk 1/4 teaspoon baking soda 2 1/4 teaspoons yeast Process on basic white cycle: use medium/normal crust. Do not use delayed-bake feature. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.8 --------------- From: "Ruth Warren" Subject: In answer to Grace about her Breadman Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:31:42 -0600 who wrote: >I received a Breadman machine as a Christmas gift from my family. I have >not yet successfully made a loaf of bread. I keep trying the same recipe, >changing yeasts, purchasing new flour, trying on a timer setting. Each >loaf comes out similar (and inedible). They don't rise. Don't change a single ingredient in the recipe, also measure, measure, measure EXACTLY!!! Just be sure you use fresh ingredients, and especially fresh yeast. You are using bread flour, right? And putting ingredients in the order given in the directions? Try a plain white recipe and see if it is any better too. gram --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.9 --------------- From: "Barrie J. Lax" Subject: Re: Whole-Wheat Challah Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 18:03:43 -0500 Maggie Glezer wrote a recipe: Slow Rise Whole-Wheat Challah Whole wheat Challa is one of those things that doesn't or shouldn't exist. Challa was always made out of the finest white flour, not whole Wheat, rye or anything else. Why call it a challa ? It's like making Chocolate bagels (I saw those recently). I just don't accept calling something something it isn't! Dat's it, dat's what, dat's all (as we Quebecois say). bar. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.10 --------------- From: "Brown, Diane" Subject: Re: Cheap bannetons, and 100% whole wheat flour breads and Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:47:17 -0600 (and praise for Rose's Bread Bible) For cheap bannetons, nothing beats 99 cent plastic colanders, lined with a flour-dusted dishcloth. If you look around, especially at bargain dollar stores and the like, you'll find quite a variety of shapes & sizes, from those suitable to make a dinner loaf for two, to a 2-3 pound loaf size. I read Rose's comment about whole wheat breads in the latest digest with amusement, particularly the timing of it. You see, I'd picked up Rose's book in a bookstore to check it out a month or two back, and glanced at the recipes long enough to see not much done with whole wheat flours, and checked out the discussion of flours, and put the book back on the shelf. I am utterly dedicated to baking with fresh-ground whole grain flours from my KitchenMill. I got the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book, which came out just when I was getting serious about baking bread, and bought my mill with my first paycheck from my part-time job when I was in college-waiting a few months to get the KitchenAid, just so you understand my priorities. Not long after I got my mill, when I was working as kitchen manager for my co-op at Berkeley, I noticed durum wheat berries were listed as available from our wholesaler. I knew durum was used for semolina because of the high gluten content, so ordered a 50# sack and split it among family & friends who had access to a mill. At first I just tried it for pasta (delicious, but a little tricky to work with), then I tried it in bread. The flavor was great, although I liked the texture better when I cut it about 50:50 with soft white wheat (I didn't find out until much later that the durum gluten is not quite the same as the gluten in standard high-protein wheat berries, and doesn't work quite as well in bread). But I liked the flavor so much I kept using this combination in preference to the hard red wheat berries (no trivial exercise, as anyone who's tried to find durum berries will understand), until I discovered hard white wheat, and fell in love with that. There is a definitely a bitterness in the red wheat that is missing in the durum (which is a golden color inside & out) and in soft or hard white wheat berries. So I absolutely agree with Rose that the white wheat makes a tastier bread. But here's where the timing comes in: I had put myself on the waiting list to get Rose's Bread Bible from the library-my favorite way to preview a cookbook to see if I want to shell out the bucks and shelf space to keep it-because my father kept raving about it, comparing it to Peter Reinhart's work with the artisan breads (yes, we worship all his books), and because I've been baking successfully from her Cake Bible for years (with my fresh-ground soft wheat flours, usually with fresh whole spices milled along with the flours, yum!). I finally got to the top of the long waiting list and brought the Bread Bible home two days ago. Yesterday I started browsing in it, and instead of reading about flours, where I knew we disagreed, I checked out her recipe for pretzels. I am a dedicated pretzel fiend, and though I can make my own breads, crackers, cakes, cookies, & pasties that are entirely satisfying, I've never figured out how to make a satisfying pretzel, nor found a whole-wheat commercial brand that I like. Years ago I remember the wife of a colleague at work telling me that she'd found she needed to use a strong lye solution to get the right tasty shiny finish on pretzels, because no amount of baking soda would work. I was never brave enough to try this on my own at home; I certainly worked with plenty of strong sodium hydroxide solutions at work, but didn't know how to get pure lye for home use, or how to use it for the pretzels. So there in Rose's book is a discussion of this complete with brand names (Red Devil lye), quantities, detailed instructions for how to do the lye dip. Ok, I was convinced. So I returned the library copy, and bought one at the bookstore before stopping at the grocery store for some lye. How funny to see, the very next day, her comments in the Bread Digest about whole wheat breads! And thanks, Rose, for the pretzel recipe. I hope to try it out in the next week, using fresh-ground hard white wheat flour, of course! diane brown in st. louis --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.11 --------------- From: "Nancy M. Schnepp" Subject: re: Danish Abelskiver Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 14:37:55 -0500 (EST) Joan, I want to know where you were in December 2000 when I was hunting for an abelskiver pan AND recipes on this list! :) Found the pan and a few recipes from this list as well, but none look as good as the ones you have on your web site. Everyone, go look! Whatalota recipes! I already see some to make for Easter. Now I can get my abelskiver pan back out. Been stored for 3 years... Thanks again Joan! -Nancy S. Joan wrote... >They can be found at my Potpourri of Recipes at this site. >http://www.pipeline.com/~rosskat/wizzx.html --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.12 --------------- From: rokzane@comcast.net Subject: Large Quantity Baking Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 19:52:07 +0000 If you can swing it, I would seriously consider investing in a bigger mixer. It would save you lots and lots of heartache. If this is a long term contract, it maybe worth the expense. Especially since you'll end up with 2 mixers, always better than one. A few more tips: 1. Timers are your friends. I work with about 4 timers (and that's not including the timer on the 2 ovens I have to manage at the same time). I use these to keep track of proofing and mixing times. Write out complete lists of every task that needs to be done. Then prioritize (spelling?) that list. I usually do so according to what takes the longest amount of time (usually what takes the longest to proof needs to be done first), and then what has to be done first or immediately to complete later tasks. Make good use of notepads! Mise en place has to be the rule in a high volume production scene. Before you start mixing and baking. Have everything ready: equipment gathered and organized, all ingredients weighed and/or measured. Train yourself to be multi-tasked. This is easy when you've got more than 1 mixer. But if you've got a food processor, you can utilize that for some kneading tasks. My rule of them is that when you've got one thing going, start on something else. When one gets good at this, it's rather amazing what can be accomplished in a few hours. Clean as you go. Very important. Make sure you are well rested and well fed before you begin. You can run out of steam fast if you're starving or sleep deprived. Hope this helps :) Roxanne --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.13 --------------- From: rokzane@comcast.net Subject: rye flour Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 20:00:12 +0000 Health food stores usually carry rye flours in bulk. It's a good idea to check with the assistants and find out how fresh the flour is and when the bin was restocked. I have had my rye flour spontaneously sprout bugs a couple of days after I've bought it:-) One of the reasons I encourage people to buy from King Arthur is because it's guaranteed fresh. Roxanne --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.14 --------------- From: Christine Knoll Subject: air dates for BAKING MAGIC WITH ROSE LEVY BERANBAUM Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 22:39:07 -0800 Dave Glaze wrote: "Do you have dates and times for when your series BAKING MAGIC WITH ROSE LEVY BERANBAUM will be appearing on KCTS-PBS?" First, I am a long time lurker, posting for the first time. I am a bread machine user, but haven't baked much in the last couple of years. I've learned a lot from all of you and I appreciate everyone sharing their successes as well as failures (or should I say negative learning experiences?). I look forward to getting back to baking soon. For Dave, I have Starchoice Satellite, which allows me to go online and search for shows coming up in the next 2 weeks. I'll keep checking and let you know when I find some air dates. I live in the Vancouver area, so I'm very familiar with KCTS. You can also e-mail me directly with the occasional reminder... I have a 4 month old so my memory fails me a lot these days. Also, you don't need to subscribe to Starchoice to use their program search. www.starchoice.com Hope this is of some help. Christine Knoll Port Coquitlam, B.C. csknoll@telus.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.15 --------------- From: "Joan & Larry Ross" Subject: toastmaster bread machine advice Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 07:06:00 -0500 My Toastmaster Platinum ( 1199S ) breadmachine of almost 10 years died, the heating element busted - all the other cycles work well. I called Toastmaster and they told me that Salton put out the Corner Bakery Bread machine as a clone to that particular Toastmaster 1199S. So I went out and bought it. The timing cycles were exactly the same, down to the minute. However the Toastmaster had a wattage of 550 and this new machine had a wattage of 420. Didn't think that would make a difference. Old ToastMaster made higher rising, fine grained texture bread and the new bread machine made a much coarser bread and not as lofty; so I returned the machine after making a few loaves in it. Now I have 2 questions 1. should the wattage difference in the machines result in different texture? 2. any recommendations for a bread machine that makes nice high rising loaves with fine grain texture? thanks for any input Joan,Larry and Cosmo the Cutie Dog Visit our Baking Pages at: http://www.pipeline.com/~rosskat/ --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.16 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: KA demostrations around the country Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 17:53:24 -0800 FREE BREAD-BAKING DEMONSTRATIONS around the country! This spring, King Arthur Flour instructors are sharing their knowledge and passion for baking with avid home bakers at FREE DEMONSTRATIONS in Southern California, Colorado, Pittsburgh/Ohio and Washington DC/Baltimore. JOIN US FEBRUARY 9-12, as we tour Southern California: San Diego, Calabasas, Pasadena, and West Hollywood. JOIN US FEBRUARY 16-19, when classes will be held in COLORADO: Englewood, Boulder, Fort Collins, and Colorado Springs. Attend one of our fun and informative classes where we'll reveal baking tips and pass on recipe ideas that'll make your breads their most delicious! As a special incentive to introduce more people to the world of King Arthur Flour, we will be offering a FREE King Arthur Flour APRON to any class attendee who brings two friends who are NEW to King Arthur Flour! For more information on class locations: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/cgibin/start/offer-r2.html?cust=66065-F --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.17 --------------- From: SueLynn Sandifer Subject: Bread in Kitchen-Aid Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 23:41:45 -0600 Okay, folks, got the professional 6 quart for Christmas and am dying to use it. However, I am a bread machine fanatic :) I have actually worn out 3 bread machines and on my 5th machine, the 4th one I gave to our son. I am spoiled to the bread machine as it does all the work. I am unable to do any kneading. What I do is use the bread machine exclusively for making the dough and then do the shaping and baking in the oven. The instructions on the KitchenAid look as if this would accomplish the same thing. Am I right to assume this? Any help appreciated. SueLynn --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.18 --------------- From: "Andreas Wagner" Subject: Amish Friendship Bread and flour strength Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 12:26:04 +0100 Bonjour everyone, A lot of postings concerned with the "poisoning" issue recently mentioned Amish Friendship Bread. Would anyone be willing to share their recipe with me, please? I think I was given something similar on my first visit to France, but that was a long time ago, and I seem to have lost the recipe. Another question - I recently found a flour in my nearest Hypermarket called Type 65, it's an organic white flour. It's first time I've come across this - usually all the shops in France seem to stock the standard Type 45 flour, apart from the occasion "complet" wholemeal flour. Would the Type 65 be the higher protein flour so desireable for bread baking? I've got a bag and will try it out, but just thought I'd ask all you experienced bakers out there. Many thanks, Andreas --------------------------------------------------------- For great holiday accommodation in the south of France visit our website at http://www.midihideaways.com --------------------------------------------------------- --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.19 --------------- From: fred smith Subject: Re: Prairie Gold flour Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 08:13:54 -0500 In bread-bakers.v104.n007 Rose said: > PS: prairie gold is available from heartland mill www.heartland.com > 800-232-8533 Perhaps you meant: www.heartlandmill.com ---- Fred Smith -- fredex@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us [Editor's note: Fred is right about the URL for Heartland Mill, but they don't make Prairie Gold flour - it comes from Wheat Montana: http://www.wheatmontana.com/ ] --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.20 --------------- From: fred smith Subject: Re: rye bread Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 08:29:26 -0500 In Digest bread-bakers.v104.n007: >From: "silky" >Subject: Polish sour rye > >After several years break from bread baking (health and family) I am back >at it and trying not to go off in every direction that beckons at >once. My main focus at this time is learning to make the real 100% rye >sourdough bread as the Eastern Europeans make. I have not been able to >find a recipe that isn't Americanized with a lot of white flour. I'm not >familiar with rye so I have no idea what proportions work. Can anyone >help with a recipe or pointers? A year or two ago thre was a series of postings in this list on the subject of "Jewish corn bread", which culminated in a couple of people posting what appears to be basically the same recipe. I've been working with that recipe ever since and have found that I can make a WONDERFUL rye bread with it, all it takes is a little persistence and attention to detail. I urge you to look at the list archives, or if you want I can email you the recipe along with my notes on how I make it. [Editor's note: We've written to Fred asking him to send the recipe and notes to the list.] I'd been struggling for years to figure out how to make a truly good loaf of rye. Not having had any old family recipes to start from, nor having found any other recipes with that kind of detail, I never got anything that was more than just marginally edible (well, edible but never particularly good). >I have been told that I won't be able to make this type of bread because >so many of the variables are different here. I would like to understand >the theory so I can choose ingredients that will come as close as >possible. I was also told that a wood-fired oven is critical. If this is >true, how? Is it really the brick lining? I grew up with a wood stove >and unless you have a good supply of the right wood, a wood stove will not >give as even a heat as a newer oven. Dunno, I make mine in our ordinary kitchen oven. it starts out HOT with a pan of water, the bread is coated with a cornstarch glaze before baking and again after 15 minutes. It comes out with a dark brown, hard, shiny crust that is a beautiful sight to behold! >Wheat flour can have different protein levels, does rye flour vary the >same way? There doesn't seem to be much rye flour available so I hope it >doesn't matter too much. This recipe is roughly half rye and half white. Though the recipe doesn't specify this, I use "first clear" instead of white. I get it from King Arthur's online web store. (when I have the first clear,... if I run out I use their unbleached all purpose and in fact it works approximately as well). ---- Fred Smith -- fredex@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n008.21 --------------- From: PETER REINHART Subject: Yet another date change Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 08:16:29 -0800 (PST) Dear List Members, Sorry to do this yet again, but we had to change the pizza class date in Atlanta (at The Viking Culinary Center), from Wed. May 5th to Wed May 12th. I hope those of you who signed up for the class are able to change to the new date, and I apologize for any inconvenience caused by this change. I'm really looking forward to my first Atlanta class and to seeing some of you there. It will be my first time in Atlanta in well over ten years. Best Regards, Peter Reinhart --------------- END bread-bakers.v104.n008 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2004 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved