Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 01:19:44 -0700 (MST) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v104.n015 -------------- 001 - Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Sk - Millie's Challah by hand 002 - "Werner Gansz" - Re: Breadman Ultimate 004 - LAllin@aol.com - Re: Breadman Ultimate 005 - Lobo Subject: Definitions Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:33:41 -0500 Several excellent recipes for rye breads have appeared on this list over the years including Rose Levy Beranbaum's Jewish Rye and a sour rye posted a few weeks ago by Fred Smith (v104.n009). These two make for an interesting comparison between a sour and non-sour rye with similar ingredients. I have been looking for a "historically informed" pumpernickel recipe for several years. The only one I have found that seems authentic is on Samartha Deva's site http://samartha.net/SD/procedures/PPN01/index.html This recipe actually uses old stale pumpernickel crumbs in the dough to help give the bread a lighter texture. (I thought bread bakers used to go to jail for adding stale bread to dough.) Samartha's recipe is an attempt to recreate a pumpernickel from a modern German bakery. Whether it is historically accurate is not clear. Baking for 24 hours in a water bath makes me think that it is rather modern. I made this bread with a whole wheat sourdough starter converted to a rye starter by refreshing it in rye a few times and it worked out great. The first try was a bit mushy but by the second try the texture lightened up and the rye slices were great for open-face pastrami sandwiches. (This bread is too crumbly to make a handheld sandwich.) Put a slab of the rye under a slice of pot roast or meat loaf smothered in gravy. I do have a question that the experts here might be able to answer. There is obviously no organization to police bread names (except in France) so anybody can call any bread by any name. Modern recipes for pumpernickels should more properly be called "espresso" bread or "cocoa" bread or "chocolate" bread for all the food coloring ingredients that get added. What I would like to know is: What makes a Jewish Rye bread different from a Rye bread and how are they each different from a pumpernickel? Is a Jewish Rye simply a rye bread using Kosher ingredients? I used to think that a pumpernickel had a sweetener of some kind (like barley malt syrup or molasses) but I see those in rye bread recipes also. If anyone has a reference to a historically-correct pumpernickel please post it. Thank you Werner --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n015.3 --------------- From: Ellen Lee Subject: Re: Breadman Ultimate Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:05:08 -0500 JJ: I bought my Breadman Ultimate from King Arthur. I wanted a "Zo", which they had carried previously, but the Zo was unobtainable. I called the King Arthur company and spoke with someone in the bread baking group. I was assured that they used the Breadman themselves and considered it superior to the Zo. I have had no problems with the Breadman, but I notice that King Arthur no longer lists it in the catalog or on the website and now is singing praises for the Zo. I would contact King Arthur and ask for directions in obtaining the replacement pan for your Breadman. I have found KA exceptionally responsive, whereas manufacturers in general are less helpful. Good luck! Ellen Lee --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n015.4 --------------- From: LAllin@aol.com Subject: Re: Breadman Ultimate Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:55:46 EST I was able to buy a replacement pan for my Breadman TR-500 for about $30 from: First Name: Breadkid Company: Breadman Business Address: P.O. Box 921 Mt. Prospect IL 60056 Business: (800) 233-9054 I had to buy both pan and paddle since the replacement pan had a different shaft size than the original. Other than the paddle being different, the pan works great; I have a batch of Hot Cross Buns in it on dough cycle right now. Good luck, Larry --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n015.5 --------------- From: Lobo Subject: Amish Friendship Bread Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 09:13:53 -0700 Someone on this list asked for the Amish Friendship Bread recipe. My sister used to make the following recipe and said it is very good. I haven't tried it. She dispensed with it because it was such a pain in the neck to continue! If I were going to make it, I'd start with a cup of my own starter in a bag, make the recipe once to measure the exact amount of starter required for the 2 loaves, and then adjust the ingredients added to the starter on Days 6 and 10 so that I would have starter left for just me rather than 4 people! If you do start this with your own starter, it will take a few bakings to get the starter to the original starter's degree of sweetness. I'd be interested to hear if anyone tries it and what you think. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Amish Friendship Bread Do not use metal spoon or bowl for mixing Do not refrigerate If air gets into bag, let it out. It is normal for batter to thicken, bubble and ferment. DAY 1: This is the day you receive the gallon sized ziplock starter bag containing 1 cup starter from a friend. Squeeze the bag. DAY 2: Squeeze the bag DAY 3: Squeeze the bag DAY 4: Squeeze the bag DAY 5: Squeeze the bag DAY 6: Add 1 cup flour, 1 cup sugar, 1 cup milk. Squeeze the bag. DAY 7: Squeeze the bag DAY 8: Squeeze the bag DAY 9: Squeeze the bag DAY 10: Combine batter, 1 cup flour, 1 cup sugar, 1 cup milk in large glass bowl. Mix with wooden spoon. Pour 4, 1 cup starters into separate gallon sized ziplock bags. Keep 1 and give 3 away to friends with a copy of this recipe. To remaining batter in large glass bowl, add: 1 cup oil, 1 cup sugar, 1 tsp vanilla, 3 large eggs, 1/2 tsp salt, 2 tsp. cinnamon, 2 cups flour, 1/2 cup milk, 1/2 tsp. baking soda, 1 large box instant vanilla pudding, 1 1/2 tsp. baking powder. Pour into 2 large loaf pans, well greased and dusted with cinnamon-sugar. Dust top of loaves as well. Bake 325 F for 1 hour. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n015.6 --------------- From: "Michael C. Zusman" Subject: More On Bagels Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:49:02 -0800 Listfolks: Although on the left coast, my bagels have achieved some renown. Comments on some prior recipe ideas and additional thoughts: (1) Do not let dough rest on the bench, nor allow bulk dough nor bagels once formed to rise. We are trying for dense and chewy, not puffy and light. (2) Use high gluten flour or a less strong flour fortified with a bit of vital wheat gluten. The aim is for a tough, elastic dough. We don't much care about extensibility with bagels. (3) I like to use a portion of fermented flour (i.e. starter culture) rather than all plain flour and water. Especially with minimal dough fermentation time, this is a key flavor component. (4) For flavor enhancement and for the perfect crust texture, retarding is an absolute must. Those pre-bagels need to sit under refrigeration for at least 12 hours, preferably a full 24, so they form a distinct skin. I think a better skin forms without a towel on top, though it may avoid odors from other items in your 'fridge. (5) Boiling should not exceed 10 seconds per side. Count 10, then flip, count another 10 and remove from your kettle. All we are trying to do is gelatinize the proteins on the surface of the dough to aid crust formation. We are not "cooking" the bagel in the water. Again, we want dense, not puffy. (6) Keep 'em small and use your scale. We all have scales by now, right? Scale off each bagel at 3 to 3.5 oz. Real bagels are small, not those big doughy monstrosities they sell at the store or poser "bagel" shops. (7) It helps to create a mini-assembly line to maximize efficiency. Have some clean, folded dish towels next to your kettle, then bowls with your toppings next to the towels and your silpat covered baking sheets next to the bowls. Boil, drain, top (put the boiled bagel top down in large bowl of seeds; sprinkle on salt if you are doing salt bagels), then place gently on the baking sheets. With half sheet pans, I wouldn't bake more than a half dozen at a time. (8) Even browning, especially when working toward a very dark golden color for maximum crustiness, is best achieved at around 400-425, with baking time about 15 to 17.5 minutes. I can't imagine going much hotter or longer without burning. Also, I have never turned a bagel over and find that the bottoms have just the right color even when baked on a baking sheet. (9) I have never had a real bagel that (a) was baked on corn meal, (b) was not boiled, and (c) came in any exotic flavor such as cinnamon-raisin or blueberry. My conservative (some might argue narrow-minded) view is that bagel flavors ought to be limited to plain, salt, sesame and poppy, with an allowance perhaps for onion (though that's what bialys are for). Best regards to my friends Peter Reinhart and Maggie Glezer--and all the other pros and serious home bakers on this list. I hope you will visit us here in Portland for Summer Loaf the first Saturday in August. Sincerely, Michael Zusman from the mythical Touch of Grace Bakery --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n015.7 --------------- From: "Jazzbel" Subject: Isabella Beeton's Chelsea Buns Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:45:50 -0500 Source : Mrs, Beeton's Book of Baking ISBN 0-7063-7004-X fat for greasing 400g/14 oz strong white flour 5ml/1 tsp sugar 200ml/7 fl.oz. milk 25g/1 oz fresh yeast or 15ml/1tbsp dried yeast 5ml/1 tsp. salt 50g/2 oz. butter 1 egg flour for kneading 15 ml/1 tbsp. butter 150g/5 oz. currants 50g/2 oz, chopped mixed peel 100g/4 oz. soft brown sugar honey for glazing Grease a baking sheet. Sift abot 75g/3oz of the flour and the sugar into large bowl. Warm the milk until lukewarm. Blend in the fresh yeast or sprinkle on the dried yeast. Pour the yeast liquid into the flour and sugar, then beat well. leave the bowl in a warm place for 20 minutes. Sift the remaining flour and salt into a bowl. Rub in the 50g/2 oz. butter. beat the egg into the mixture and add the flour and fat mixture. Mix to a soft dough. Turn on to a lightly floured surface and knead for about 6 minutes or util the dough is smooth and no longer sticky. Return to the bowl and cover with cling film Leave in a warm place until the dough has doubled in volume. On a floured surface, roll out the dough to a 50cm/20 inch square. Melt the remaining butter and brush it all over the surface of the dough. Sprinkle with the dried fruit and sugar. Roll up the dough like a swiss roll. Cut the dough into 16 equal pieces. Place the buns, about 2.5 cm/1 inch apart, on the prepared bakig sheet with the cut side uppermost. Place thr baking sheet in a large, lightly oiled polythene bag. leave in awarm palce for about 30 minutes or until the buns have joined together and are light and puffy. Set the oven at 220C/425F/gas 7. Bake for 15-20 minutes, until golden brown. While still hot, brush with honey. Later, Jazzbel --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n015.8 --------------- From: Corina Gaffney Subject: Re: Breadman pan Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:19:13 -0800 (PST) Try Ebay! Just do a search for the specific bread machine model, and you'll often find a number of people offering just the bread pan, or paddle. That's how I found mine. You can also go to "My Ebay" and request that you be emailed anytime your search terms come up in a posting. Corina Gaffney --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n015.9 --------------- From: "docmus" Subject: Breakfast Pizza Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:20:56 -0500 The other day we stopped at American Pie restaurant in Sherman, CT for a mid afternoon Sunday brunch. They were serving a breakfast "pizza" which was spectacular. It is not too sweet but very rich and satisfying. They start with their sticky bun dough, spread it with slightly sweetened riccota and top with cooked sliced cinnamon apples. The apples looked like pie apples to me. Then they top it with the barest hint of thin frosting.....looks like cheese but tastes like butter frosting. This is served cut into wedges that look like pizza. I can hardly wait to try this at home. My question is this. Does anyone know of a low fat sticky bun recipe which might work with this dish? Thanks in advance. Karen docmus@mindspring.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v104.n015.10 --------------- From: "docmus" Subject: One more question about Sticky Bun dough Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:41:13 -0500 I found a sticky bun recipe from Peter Reinhart's Crust and Crumb that calls for very little fat, about 1/4 cup, and buttermilk. I also found a very low fat sticky bun recipe (by Google) which calls for evaporated skim milk. Both recipes use unbleached white flour. Is there any reason I can't use whole wheat flour in either of these recipe's and still have a viable dough for my breakfast "pizza?" Thanks again. Karen docmus@mindspring.com --------------- END bread-bakers.v104.n015 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2004 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved