Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 02:36:46 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v105.n013 -------------- 001 - Brian WOOD Subject: convection ovens Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 09:58:30 +0000 From my experience I would use conventional baking IF your oven has top and bottom heating, convection if not. Convection ovens produce a more even heat distribution, ideal for multiple shelves of cookies for instance, but they can dry the surface out a tad. I would say a baking stone makes the biggest contribution to well baked breads, sourdough or not. Cheers --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n013.2 --------------- From: seth godin Subject: radiant heat Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 07:55:26 -0500 Maggie Glezer's cookbooks are a marvelous contribution to our art, but I have to correct her post about baking stones. There's very little radiant heat at the top of an ordinary oven. There's *convected* heat (hot air), especially if you have a fan blowing it around. But in order to have radiant heat at the top of your oven, you need to turn on the broiler, a particularly bad idea if you are baking bread on the top shelf! Radiant heat is the warmth you feel when you step out of the shade on a sunny day. It has nothing to do with warm air. The fastest way to heat up a baking stone is to put it on the floor of the oven, because most non-electric ovens heat up by putting gas heat under the floor. The heat will conduct (faster and more effective than heating the air) straight from the metal to the stone. The problem with using the floor of your gas oven is that the stone will get very very hot and then you need to move it before you bake. Probably not worth the effort, Einstein! Here's how I do it: 1. baking stone on the middle shelf 2. 60 minute minimum preheat 3. broiler pan with a brick or two in it as low as possible in the oven 4. (this is the best part) a 12 oz. seltzer can (like a Coke can, but it never had sugar in it) with a tiny pinhole poked in the bottom. Moments before the bread goes in, I fill the can with very warm water, keeping my finger over the pinhole. I place the can in the pan, then slide in the bread. Over the next 60 to 90 seconds, with the oven door *closed*, the water seeps from the can to the pan and instantly evaporates without a risk of scalding. Have fun. Seth Godin --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n013.3 --------------- From: Werner Gansz Subject: Convection Ovens Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:17:03 -0500 Marilee, I have been using a convection oven for baking bread for 4 years. Prior to that I baked in a "normal" radiant oven. There are differences in procedure but in my opinion convection baking is better. I bake on a stone. In convection baking the height of the bread in the oven doesn't matter because the air inside is circulated. The stone can be low in the oven. Here is my procedure for hearth-style breads, only the temperatures varies with the size of the bread. 1. Preheat the stone to 475 to 500 F using convection mode. It takes about 20 minutes for the oven to get to temperature. I add another 15 minutes for the stone to heat uniformly. When your bread comes out uniform in color top and bottom you know you got it right. 2. Turn the oven off, slash the loaves, place them on the stone, add mist or steam, close the door. Leave the oven off until the oven temp drops to 400 to 425 F. I use the lower temps for large loaves, the higher for baguettes. Keeping the oven off during cool down time keeps the steam/moisture in the oven and lets it settle on the crust. If the oven were on during the cool down period, the convection fan would drive the moisture out of the oven through the vent. (If you can seal off the vent while the oven is off it would be even better.) It should take about 7 to 10 minutes for the temperature to reach the lower value. 3. When the lower baking temperature has been reached (remove the seal on the vent, if sealed) turn the oven back on in convection mode. By this time the oven rise should be finished and the crust should be set. At this point the added moisture has done its work and the convection mode helps drive heat into the loaves and the moisture out of the loaves and out of the oven. Once the crust shows color, open the oven and rotate the loaves 180 F. The moving air in the convection oven tends to brown the "windward" side faster. I get thicker chewier crusts with convection baking and I think it is because the moisture is driven out of crust by the convection fan. An internal temperature of 195 F will result in a moist crumb and chewy crust. At 205 F the crust will be a bit cracklier and the crumb dryer. Leave the loaves in the oven with the oven door open for 5 minutes to help dry and set the crust even more. Werner --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n013.4 --------------- From: "Adele Klingberg" Subject: Re: 00 Flour Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:40:36 -0600 I found this on Google also, (http://www.ochef.com) What is 00 Flour? In Italy, flour is classified either as 1, 0, or 00, and refers to how finely ground the flour is and how much of the bran and germ have been removed. Doppio zero is the most highly refined and is talcum-powder soft. Many people assume that this softness also means that the flour is low in protein, and therefore particularly suitable for making pasta but unsuitable for use in making bread. They are wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. As Jeffrey Steingarten cogently explains in his new book, It Must've Been Something I Ate (Canada, UK), flours of varying protein levels can be milled to the 00 category. He had a number of samples of flour analyzed in a lab and found the 00 flours to be higher in protein than many of the less-refined ones. Higher protein 00 flours that are suitable for making bread are labeled in Italy as "panifiable" - essentially "bread-ready." Steingarten says cooks in the United States sometimes substitute a mix of low-protein cake flour and all-purpose flour for the 00 flour called for in a pasta recipe. But Marcella Hazan, author of The Essentials of Classic Italian Cooking (Canada, UK), says she finds that all-purpose flour does the "most consistently satisfying job" in standing in for the doppio zero. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n013.5 --------------- From: "mike fuller" Subject: bread quotes Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 06:36:16 -1200 I have been thinking of including in my weekly bread deliveries a small piece of paper with a famous or not so famous quote on bread in the bag does anyone have a good source for this? thanks mike in havana --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n013.6 --------------- From: adam.newey@guardian.co.uk Subject: RE: French flour in the UK Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:00:16 +0000 Diane, I get all my flour from The Flourbin, based, I think, in Chesterfield. You can order online at www.flourbin.co.uk. They do T45, T55, T65, T85 and T150, as well as just about anything else you could want. I find them quick, efficient and reasonably priced. happy baking, Adam --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n013.7 --------------- From: Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Skallywagg Forever) Subject: Lotsa stuff... Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:33:26 -0500 Let's start a fight! I agree with Maggie Glezer about not keeping a baking stone in the oven all the time. I know it's gonna get dirty and stained, but I'm not gonna help it get that way. I use it only for bread (including pita and focaccia) and pizza. I disagree with the practice of pouring water into a pan to create steam. I don't believe the home oven can create enough heat to create enough steam. I don't agree with opening the door again to spray with water after the loaves have been put into the oven. There may be some steam created, but it is minimal, and you lose a lot of heat by opening the door. I spray my loaves just before I slide them into the oven and I don't open the door again until it's time to check the temperature of the bread with my instant thermometer. Bob the Tarheel Baker --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n013.8 --------------- From: Popthebaker@aol.com Subject: Maggie Glezer challah Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:10:22 EST Frederica, Divide dough into two portions and braid as illustrated on page 63. (three strand braid) Wrap as illustrated on page 72. (Pinwheel Round) Pop --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n013.9 --------------- From: Mike Avery Subject: Re: Baking Stones and Milk Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:04:32 -0700 Maggie Glezer wrote: >Regarding baking stones, I have been using one for a long time, and I find >there is an awful lot of strange advice about it being bandied about. There sure is... >I only keep mine in the oven for baking certain breads, and keep it put >away for the rest of the time. By keeping the stone in the oven all the >time, you will really be wasting a lot of energy, because preheating takes >forever. On the other hand, when I keep mine in, I like the way roast meat and fowl turn out much better than when they are are not in there. >For making bread (and, trust me, it's not worth it for frozen pizza), Gee... more strange advice. If you have to use frozen pizza, and I confess I've done this from time to time, using an oven stone really helps the crust of the pizza. It's not like a great pizza, but it's much closer to a passable one. Again, it depends on what you want. I want a CRISP crust, not a chewy one. Mike --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n013.10 --------------- From: "Bluebird B." Subject: Flour type 00 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 04:45:06 -0800 (PST) Hi, I'm Bluebird! To all who helpt me with the italian flour type 00 used to make pizza, I would like to say: THANKS YOU! Have a good one! Bluebird. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n013.11 --------------- From: Bettyho33@aol.com Subject: Swedish Limpah recipe Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:35:01 EST Several years ago I copied a recipe for Orange Rye or Swedish Limpah Bread. It was very good. I saved this on a computer and now when I try to print it it is not readable. If anyone has this please post it as it is a very good bread. Thanks Betty --------------- END bread-bakers.v105.n013 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2005 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved