Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 06:15:45 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v105.n015 -------------- 001 - aqn@panix.com - Re: bread quotes 002 - FREDERICKA COHEN Subject: radiant oven heat and stone in the oven Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 03:21:39 -0800 (PST) Allen Cohn's wise comments about radiant heat from the top of the oven remind me of my call to the service department about a newly purchased Maytag range. It was explained to me by the technician that when the "dinger" signaled that the desired heat had been reached, it was the temperature probe that was at the desired temperature. The walls were NOT! He advised adding 15 - 20 minutes to the "ding" time to get the full heat build-up. Anyone who has used a counterclockwise fan knows how much heat reaches the top of a room. Removing the stone between uses? If I have to clean roast chicken spatters off the oven walls, those spatters are also going to be on my stone. So will the residue from eveything else that goes in the oven. My first stone was quarry tiles on a cookie sheet which I left in the oven. After several weeks, the heated oven smelled like a cheap diner !) Fredericka --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n015.3 --------------- From: Lois Silverman Subject: Bread for South Beach Diet Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 09:19:48 -0500 After years of loving my bread, my husband and I have entered the SBD program (South Beach Diet). We have each lost about 17 lbs each. Now the question... Need a high fiber low carb bread milkless bread to substitute for our Friday night bread (challah). Thanks all Lois in sunny Utica, NY --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n015.4 --------------- From: seth godin Subject: more on radiant heat Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 09:35:03 -0500 I stand corrected. There is, in fact, radiant heat coming from the pre-heated walls and top of an oven. However, it's important to note that the amount of heat radiating from these surfaces is tiny compared to the btus being pumped out at the bottom of your oven. I'll shut up now. Seth Godin Author, speaker http://www.sethgodin.com click on my head to read my blog. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n015.5 --------------- From: Dan Haggarty Subject: Re: water in a pan Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 10:19:26 -0500 FWIW, I put about 3 cups of hot water in a shallow pan when I turn on the oven and steam gradually starts being generated as the oven warms up. By the time the oven is up to temperature, steam is coming out of the oven vent built into the right rear stove burner. After the bread has been in about 10 minutes I remove the pan, which typically has about 1/2 cup of water remaining, and stop the steam production. Dan --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n015.6 --------------- From: "Richard Walker" Subject: DOUGHBOYS - an occasional request Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 10:07:23 -0600 There is supposed to be a "tradition" creating doughboys, where the arms cover an egg placed in the stomach region, for Easter. Has anyone heard of this tradition or does anyone have a recipe for doughboys? I found it in a book, but am beginning to think the author lived a fairly romantic life where tradition could be created if it didn't already exist. The internet has "NOTHING" on this. Richard L Walker Pensacola FL U.S.A. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n015.7 --------------- From: Gloria J Martin Subject: Steam in oven: Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 11:05:34 -0600 I would disagree with those who think a pan of water does not produce enough steam to be worthwhile. I had an oven with a very tight seal and when I had a pan of water on the bottom rack, enough steam would be produced to run in rivulets down the glass on the door. I have spritzed, but think it is too short-lived to be of much help. I do sometimes thoroughly wet the outside of the loaf just before putting into the oven. I do that with my hands as it is quicker. Incidentally, when I cook a roast in an open pan (rump, rib, tender type) I put a pan of water in the bottom and find the roast looses less juice but the water in the pan does evaporate. Gloria Martin ggmartin2@juno.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n015.8 --------------- From: Stephen Remer Subject: Stones and Steam Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 06:00:01 -0800 (PST) I have tried the water or ice in a pan and always find fluid left in the pan once the bread is done. Now I just spray water right before closing the door and twice again in 1 minute intervals. As for the stone, I take it out for pizza use a Lodge cast iron griddle reserved for just pizza. Set the oven at 500 F and heat for 1 hour. The closest I can get to a professional crust. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n015.9 --------------- From: Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Skallywagg Forever) Subject: Steam and shoot-outs Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 09:21:38 -0500 HOO BOY! THAT WAS FUN, WASN'T IT? * To Diane Purkiss: How big is that hurled glass of water, Diane? Do I understand you correctly that the steam lasts 20 minutes until you turn the bread? Mama mia, dat's a lotta steam. * To John in Yorkshire: My instant thermometer takes about 5 seconds to reach the max. I guess I'll call it my 5-second thermometer from now on. * To Diane Brown: Wow! Is your cast-iron pan and oven for sale? Good on you! Must be that lovely humidity in St. Louis. * To Pop: Are you able to quickly get a lot of water into the pan with your bulb syringe? It seems as if you'd lose a lot of heat that way. * In any case, I accept your challenge to meet just north of the old feed store to duel with baguettes at ten paces. Perhaps the two Dianes and John will bring some olive oil. * Bob the Tarheel Baker and Gunslinger --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n015.10 --------------- From: Andrew Nguyen Subject: Re: Steam Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 11:46:42 -0600 Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Skallywagg Forever) wrote: >I disagree with the practice of pouring water into a pan to create steam. >I don't believe the home oven can create enough heat to create enough steam. Why? My oven is hot enough to bake bread, roast chicken, bake lasagna, bake my wife's pastries, some of which involves converting water/moisture to steam. Why wouldn't it be hot enough to create "enough" steam? If I leave a pan of water in a 400F oven long enough, all of the water will boil dry. Some people (not necessarily you, Bob) like to tout their "commercial" home oven as "having huge thermal mass" so the introduction of a loaf of bread or a pint of water won't even budge its temperature. However, my garden-variety Jenn-Air oven (and I suspect most ovens) has such huge thermal mass that it'd take an Act of Congress to lower the temperature 25F in less than a minute. If I make a mistake with a too-high temperature, I'd have to turn off the oven, open its door, and fan vigorously at it for several minutes to bring its temperature down. If I just turn down the temperature and do nothing else, it'd take an eternity (well, more like 15 minutes) for the temperature to drop 25F. So, I believe that my oven, and probably most ovens, has more than enough thermal mass to generate "enough steam" for baking bread. Wcsjohn@aol.com wrote: >I agree, I used to do it every time but I missed, on a couple of occasions >and the bread wasn't any the worse so I gave up the "Steam Dance" [...] I must admit that I have not done any testing to see whether using steam makes any differences with the various types of bread that I bake (mostly French, ciabatta, and foccacia with a smattering of lavash crackers & breadsticks). It's entirely possible that use of steam in home baking is more a matter of lore and tradition than proper technique. Wcsjohn@aol.com wrote: >spritzing the oven is a total waste of time, effort and water and can >actually result in reduced volume due to heat loss at a critical stage in >the bread's expansion It could be a waste of time; I don't know. As for heat loss, I do know that with my oven, the heat loss from opening of the oven door and spritzing water into it is negligible. (See "Act of Congress", above.) debunix wrote: >I have to step back from the cloud of steam that burst out when I drop >water in my heavy cast-iron pan in my oven. May I point out that this exercise only demonstrates the steam-making ability of your cast-iron pan, not of your oven. Do you know whether/how much your oven's temperature drop when you do this? >I certainly makes steam, and does make a difference in the crust. I'm glad to hear that there is a difference. I must admit that I have not yet been able to convince myself of this one way or another. Andy Nguyen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n015.11 --------------- From: David A Barrett Subject: Re: Stones and Steam Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:31:07 -0500 My understanding was that the role of steam was to keep the crust of the bread moist, which allows it to continue to expand for a longer period of time after it has been placed in the oven. Once the crust starts to harden your oven-spring is over, so you want to if you can slow that process down a little if you can. To my mind, any oven hot enough to bake bread can create enough steam to serve this purpose. I've got a convection oven (even though I rarely use it in that mode for bread), which means that there is a vent which allows the steam to exit the oven. I find that 1 cup of water will take about 10 minutes to evaporate from a jellyroll pan in the bottom of the oven. This is long enough to allow maximum oven spring, and short enough to allow the bread to develop a good crust after the steam is gone. With my previous, electric convection, oven I did some tests of steam production. What I found was that I wasn't able to get the oven over 450 degrees with the water in the bottom. My guess was that the loss of steam out the vent (driven by the positive pressure created by the steam) was taking heat out of the oven at a rate equal to or greater than the oven's ability to heat it. Also, that oven had pressure pad controls for the timer near the vent, and they would always short out due to the steam. My new, gas, oven has a much better convection action than the old electric. I haven't really tried to use the convection on this oven for bread, but it would be interesting to see how various combinations of convection (or not) and steam (or not) affect the rise and the crust of bread. Hmmmm, this sounds like an excuse to make at least 4 loaves of bread this weekend...... Dave Barrett --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n015.12 --------------- From: "Valmai Barbala" Subject: Package weights Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 00:39:29 +0930 American bread recipes call for "package of yeast". How much do these packets weight? Thank you. [[ Editor's note: From a bottle of _Fleischmann's BreadMachine Yeast_ is this information: 2 1/4 tsp BreadMachine yeast (0.25 oz) equals 1 Pkg Active Dry Yeast (0.25 oz) equals 1 Cake Fresh Yeast (0.6 oz) ]] --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n015.13 --------------- From: "Jonathan Kandell" Subject: Is Fiori di Sicilia just citrus + vanilla? Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:27:16 -0700 I see Fiori di Sicilia in many Panettone recipes. King Arthur carries it. But I was surprised to see on their web site the ingredients were listed as "citrus and vanilla". Is that all it is? I thought it was from a flower. Is there any reason not to substitute half vanilla half citrus extracts? --------------- END bread-bakers.v105.n015 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2005 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved