Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 05:34:53 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v105.n016 -------------- 001 - Jessica Weissman Subject: reasons not to substitute half citrus and half vanilla for fio di Sicilia Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 07:48:50 -0400 First, you don't know the relative strengths of the two ingredients in the final flavor. There's no reason to assume it's half and half. Second, you don't know how relatively intense the flavors are in citrus and vanilla extract. Third, you don't know what the carrier is for the flavors. All three of those factors would make it difficult to get the same results. But it might be fun experimenting, and maybe the amounts involved are so small that it doesn't make any difference. Jessica Weissman --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n016.2 --------------- From: Diane Purkiss Subject: Steam Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:08:42 +0100 >To Diane Purkiss: How big is that hurled glass of water, Diane? Normal tumbler-size. Around 6-8 oz. I use less for smaller loaves. >Do I understand you correctly that the steam lasts 20 minutes until you >turn the bread? Mama mia, dat's a lotta steam. Yes, that's right, but of course it does dissipate, though not entirely and not even more than 50% or so. Diane Purkiss --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n016.3 --------------- From: "Werner Gansz" Subject: The "Steam Explosion" Method Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 10:53:25 -0400 I gave this note an attention getting title for a reason. This method of creating steam in a home oven is not for the fainthearted. It comes with safety warnings and legal disclaimers. Burn this note before reading, etc. I originally read of this method several year ago on one of the USENET baking groups, posted by a regular contributor who reported on his experiments as he went along. One must handle a very hot, heavy cast iron pan and a cup of boiling water. If you're not up this, don't try it. Putting the two together in an oven creates a steam explosion that boils off 3/4 cup of the water in less then a minute, the full cup in less than 3 or 4 minutes. It takes preparation, concentration and an elimination of distractions (like children playing in the kitchen, etc.) I have used this method in two ovens, a mid-range Jenn-Air and a high-end Gaggenau. Both have oven lamps and glass windows in the door. I have never popped a oven lampcover or done any damage to either oven that I know of. Your oven may react differently. The originator claimed that he once popped the glass lamp cover in his oven. It also helps to have access to the oven vent to seal it off temporarily. This was easy on the Jenn-Air, impossible on the Gaggenau. You will probably decide that getting a thick chewy crust on a loaf of bread isn't worth it. You are probably right. Equipment required: a heavy cast iron pan (mine is 12" diameter by 1.5" deep), a very good quality oven mitt, a pyrex 1 cup liquid measure. In the Jenn-Air the cast iron pan fit on the floor between the heating elements and below the rack with the baking tiles. In the Gaggenau it sits on a rack well above the baking stone. This is not as nice an arrangement but it works. Oven and baking stone should be fully preheated to 50 deg higher than baking temperature before starting the Timeline below. Timeline: time before bread goes in the oven T-7 minutes: Clear the kitchen of all distractions (kids, amorous spouses) and turn off the TV. Place the cast iron pan on the biggest burner on the stove, leave off. Fill a microwaveable measuring cup with 1 cup of tap water and place it in the microwave, leave off. Place the oven mitt near the cast iron pan. Dampen a towel or wash cloth. T-5 minutes: Set the burner under the cast iron pan to max heat. T-2 minutes: Start the microwave and bring the cup of water to a boil. Prepare the bread (remove from proofing container, set on peel.) T-30 sec: Slash loaves. Turn the oven off, seal the vent with a damp cloth. Liftoff: Open the oven door, slide the loaves onto the baking stone. Turn off the stove, PUT ON THE MITT, place the VERY HOT cast iron pan in its place in the oven. WHILE STANDING TO THE SIDE OF THE OVEN, pour the cup of boiling water into the pan and close the door immediately. This all should take no more than 20 seconds. The initial surge of steam evaporates 1/2 to 3/4 cup of the water. The pan loses heat quickly because it is being used to create the steam. After 30 seconds there may only be a 1/4 cup left. T+4 minutes: The steam has done its work. The pan should be dry. If not, you may have to adjust the timeline to allow the pan more time on the stove. Remove the vent seal, turn the oven on and set to the correct baking temperature. It is useful to practice loading the oven with cold equipment a few times. You may want to wear a long sleeve shirt and long pants and eye protection the first few times until you see how the steam acts. And yes, you will likely have to mop up the floor around oven. Oven doors are not steam proof. There are two things happening during the steaming process. The skin is kept moist and remains soft enough to allow the loaf to rise fully, lightening the crumb. This could be done by just misting the loaves with water directly before putting them in the oven. If this were the only issue, steam wouldn't be required. Once steam forms in the oven it remains steam until it touches a cool object. The only cool object in the oven is the bread. The steam condenses on the loaves and boils the skin (like a bagel in boiling water, only hotter). This is why you need a lot of steam. This steam-boiled skin then bakes and eventually becomes a thick chewy crust. If you look through the oven window about 2 minutes into the bake the loaves look like they are covered with a white gelcoat or an aspic. They glisten. Bake a couple of baguettes and sacrifice one about 2 or 3 minutes into the bake. Remove it from the oven (watch out for the escaping steam) and touch the skin; it will be coated with a thick sticky goo, basically boiled dough (pasta?). Cut through the loaf and it will look like dough painted with a thick white paint. Please be careful. Treat the timeline like a military drill and don't get distracted. Touching the cast iron pan's handle without a glove will likely leave permanent scars, steam burns are also very serious. You didn't hear about this from me! Anonymous --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n016.4 --------------- From: "qahtan" Subject: Steam in the oven Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 11:38:06 -0400 I make a very rich fruit cake, and the recipe requests steam in the oven by placing a pan of boiling water in the oven. I hadn't thought of it before but this would surely work well with bread baking, must try it next time. qahtan --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n016.5 --------------- From: Roxanne Rieske Subject: RE: Fiori di Sicilia Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 09:38:40 -0600 Fiori di Sicilia is the extract of a flower. King Arthur flour describes it as "having hints" of citrus and vanilla--which it does, but there are also abut 10,000 or so other flavor compounds in it. It's as complex as vanilla, wine, and coffee are. If you can't find the extract, you can certainly use citrus and vanilla (I've used 1 tsp orange, 1 tsp lemon, and 2 tsp vanilla extracts), but believe me, you will miss a very special flavor without the Fiori di Sicilia. That stuff is heaven in a bottle :) Roxanne Rieske (Rokzane) rokzane@comcast.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n016.6 --------------- From: Roxanne Rieske Subject: The Great Steam Debate Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 09:52:52 -0600 Ah well, I might as well throw in my 2 cents! I got a tip once from one of the bakers at King Arthur Flour. I guess in their test kitchen, they use charcoal briquettes lined into a hotel pan and the whole thing is heated up with the oven and the baking stone. When the bread goes in the oven, they throw a a glass of water over the briquettes and the steam just billows. Well, I did try this and it works wonderfully, but I found that the briquettes left a smell in my oven (and my kitchen) that I wasn't overly fond of, so I substituted the briquettes with river stones (you can usually find these at water landscaping places). Since I don't have a stainless steel hotel pan to put them in, I use my huge cast iron skillet. Skillet and stones go on the bottom of my oven (I have one those ovens with a hidden bottom coil--so I've got a flat surface that sits directly over the heat source. My oven is also one of the newer Even Bake systems); I put the baking stone on the middle shelf and heat up the oven for 40 minutes at 500 F. When the oven's ready, I slide in the bread, throw 2 cups of water on the stones and shut the door. I let the bread bake for 6 minutes and then turn down the heat to whatever it's supposed to be at. I've gotten some of the best looking breads with this method. If anyone has ever gone through a sweat lodge ceremony, you will know what I'm talking about with the steam that is created. Roxanne Rieske (Rokzane) rokzane@comcast.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n016.7 --------------- From: Popthebaker@aol.com Subject: Yes Bob, the bulb syringe works Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 12:21:06 EDT The bulb syringe I use is the type used in an operating room for irrigation. It holds about 120 ml. (4 oz.) of water and the opening is about 1/4 inch in diameter. The nominal size of the syringe is 60 ml. but it will hold twice that if you fill it completely. Three quick squeezes of the bulb and all the water is in the steam pan. Takes about two or three seconds. The door is already open to insert the loaf so the added time is not critical. My oven has a very efficient seal and I still have enough steam present to fog my glasses when I open it at 20 minutes to turn the loaf. A typical turkey baster is not as efficient because it has a smaller opening. Pop --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n016.8 --------------- From: "Jonathan Kandell" Subject: Re: Fiori di Sicilia Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 09:56:06 -0700 Roxanne, your description is what I've always heard--floral with hints of citrus and vanilla. But the web page catalog description makes it seem otherwise (links below). Anyone have a bottle with the ingredients on it that can settle this? I can't read the ingredients in the photo http://shop.bakerscatalogue.com/images/1081275766409.jpg I guess I need to call them to find out. Or just buy a bottle. :- Fiori di sicilia "Now all natural": http://shop.bakerscatalogue.com/items/item1546.html "An all-natural combination of citrus and vanilla" Their older fiori di sicilia (now on clearance) was made with artificial flavor: http://shop.bakerscatalogue.com/items/item1334.html "A combination of citrus and vanillin" --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n016.9 --------------- From: Joe Tilman Subject: Re: DOUGHBOYS - an occasional request Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 10:26:09 -0700 (PDT) >There is supposed to be a "tradition" creating doughboys, where the arms >cover an egg placed in the stomach region, for Easter. I have "The History of Bread" by Bernard Dupaigne, and he doesn't give much info, but has a picture as you describe (and the picture makes me think more of Christmas than Easter), captioned "Brioche bread enclosing an egg, symbol of the Resurrection of Christ. Greece." In the text, he notes several *other* traditions, but the only place that *sounds* like it might be describing the pictured bread reads as follows: "These bread figures recall the Saint Nicholas and Christmas figures in Northern regions; they go by various names: estève in Provence, coulom in the Ardèche, and pantin in the Haute-Loire near Saint-Etienne, where they are sold during the Holy Week." The problem is, this sentence seems to be describing bread figures to decorate laurel branches -- not something that sounds large enough to hold an egg, so not sure if it is referring to the same thing... Sorry if that's not too much help. If you want to look it up, the ISBN is 0810934388, and the picture is on page 139 and the quoted text on 138. Joe --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n016.10 --------------- From: Joe Tilman Subject: Re: Steam in oven: Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 10:56:34 -0700 (PDT) While I am a baking amateur, weather and climate is my specialty -- and your oven is nothing if not a micro-climate! So...here is my 37-cents on the oven steam debate: Just because you don't see or hear it doesn't mean it ain't there! The hissing of spray hitting the wall or ice in a pan is reassuring, but the effects of such small amounts of water is fairly close to negligible. The ice cannot sublimate fast enough to raise humidity levels significantly, unless you use enough ice that you lower the overall oven temp. Spraying the oven and walls while the door is open means you are losing both significant heat AND almost all of the (arguably) insignificant steam you are producing. Do this several times, and I would argue any oven spring is being caused by baking at a lower temp for the minutes that you repeatedly open the door to spray. I would suggest that the best way to introduce the highest level of continuous humidity to your oven (without installing steam injectors) is to use a wide vessel, such as a 9x13 cake pan or a quarter-sheet pan or a 14-inch oven-safe skillet filled 1/4 to 1/2 with *HOT* water. This way you have a large surface area that is evaporating and producing steam the entire baking time (if you wish to reduce the humidity during the latter half of baking, covering is faster and safer than trying to remove!). Joe --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n016.11 --------------- From: Roxanne Rieske Subject: Re: Fiori di Sicilia Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 12:41:16 -0600 The King Arthur product may actually be an artificial of the real thing. Fiori di Sicilia is an honest to goodness extract of a Sicilian flower, but it's very pricey and extremely rare to find in the states. I have not used the King Arthur product, so I couldn't tell you if it compares to the real thing. My one and only bottle of Fiori di Sicilia came straight from Rome (via the graciousness of a good friend who made a trip there last Spring). It cost approximately 60 U.S. Dollars for 2.5 fluid ounces. From my understanding, it is not a mass produced product in the region, but usually made by independent growers of these flowers and sold locally. My best guess is that U.S. producers are trying to come as close to the real thing as possible by blending various extracts and flavors. I would go ahead and give it a shot. Maybe make a recipe with the extract and another recipe with orange/lemon/vanilla extracts and see how the two compare. Roxanne Rieske (Rokzane) rokzane@comcast.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n016.12 --------------- From: "Kenneth McMurtrey" Subject: bread quote Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 16:18:42 -0500 My favorite bread quote, which also says something about the Italian concern with food is: "The optimum for taste and consistency of crust is obtained by baking bread in a brick oven, heated by burning oak branches with a few walnut branches, and swept out with a broom of olive branches dampened with rain water" Guillano Bugialli, in The Art of Italian Cooking. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n016.13 --------------- From: "K.Bahr" Subject: Gas Convection Oven Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 00:14:42 -0400 I'd like to ask Dave Barrett to give us an evaluation of his gas convection oven, including the make and model, not only for bread baking but other cooking as well. Ten years ago I was interested in getting one, but could only find one that had to be vented to the outside. Is this true of your model, Dave? Does it use natural gas or propane? Thanks for the info. Kathy --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n016.14 --------------- From: FREDERICKA COHEN Subject: thanks for directions Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:55:47 -0700 (PDT) I'm having a problem with my "sent" folder so I can't check to see if I thanked everyone who sent me the Maggie Glezer braiding instructions. Here it is again. THANK YOU! Since I am giving her full credit (and I know she reads this site), I hope she won't mind if I pass on a technique from her "Blessing of Bread" book. She recommends a final rise to triple in bulk. It can be checked by talking a rounded tablespoon of that dough and placing it in a 1/4 cup measure. When it fills the measure, the shaped dough has tripled! I am getting a much better rise and spring now that I can better guage the rise! Thank you all again. Fredericka --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n016.15 --------------- From: "Dick Carlton" Subject: Flour Mills Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 20:39:48 -0700 For many years I have used a "Magic Mill III' flour mill and have been very pleased with its performance. Recently my wife was put on a gluten-free, dairy-free diet so I've had to make her bread from rice flour. To Minimize the possibility of contaminating the rice flour I dedicated the "Magic Mill" to making strictly rice flour. Fortunately at that same time I was offered a "Lee Household Flour Mill" from a friend retiring to a rest home so I obtained that for grinding my wheat, rye and corn. It makes flour utilizing a single stone which does not require periodic surfacing and produces flour without heating up. Anyone interested can contact the manufacturer at (414) 272-4050. --------------- END bread-bakers.v105.n016 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2005 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved