Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 09:04:05 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v105.n031 -------------- 001 - Debunix Subject: Re: grinding wheat Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 21:40:51 -0500 It's hard to do this one halfway. I have played with an inexpensive poppy seed grinder to grind wheat, but it was so much work that if I didn't have a specific purpose in mind (I needed a small amount of flour that was not heated during milling for a special starter) I'd have quit fast. So starting too small can easily doom your efforts to failure. I have only used electric flour mills regularly, and have used a tiny, still quite noisy mill that could only do 2-3 cups at a time, and pretty coarsely at that--again, it was not easily putting out a lot of fine flour so had limited usefulness. I have used two different electric mills, both of them impact-type mills, that are wonderfully fast and make really fine flour as well as coarser stuff. They're pretty loud,but the newer one is less so. I've seen several similar models available for about $200--check out the nutrimill and the ultramill here: http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/index.asp#Nutrimill. If you can afford one of these, or can wait and save for it, I think you're more likely to stick with the fresh milled stuff for the long run. If you use white wheats and mill the flour fine enough, even finicky eaters may not notice that they're eating whole grain goods. I've put together some random notes on my favorite things about milling my own wheat here: http://www.well.com/user/debunix/recipes/WholeBaking.html Diane Brown in St. Louis http://www.well.com/user/debunix/recipes/FoodPages.html --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n031.2 --------------- From: Linda C Subject: Grinding wheat - my experience Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 21:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Hi, Lisa. You are right where I was a few years ago and I totally understand your needing to make your way slowly. That's good, but if you're like me it won't be long until you're in it up to your eyeballs and loving it. I started for health reasons in my family. I made my own bread from white flour for years and knew I needed to change, but didn't want dry, tasteless brown bread that no one would eat. I started by getting a 'new' coffee grinder and began adding whole wheat flour to the white flour. (You can only grind 1/2 to 1 cup at a sitting. It overheats easily.) I got the hard red wheat grain from the health food store and over many months increased the amounts, but I still wasn't happy with the texture. It was still a little courser than I wanted for sandwich bread. A friend introduced me to using Prairie Gold wheatberries and it makes awesome whole wheat bread. I bought the Ultramill for grinding. It was about $130 and has a lifetime warranty on it. It has served me well. I also get pastry grain and have ground oatmeal in it, as well. I have since switched to Golden 86 (I think is the name) and get it from Walton Feed. We were able to get a good price and low shipping because a truck driver brought it to us cheap on his way back. I got 250 lbs about over 2 years ago and everyone thought I was nuts. Well, I opened my last bucket a few weeks back and hope to order more. I bake cakes, pastry, cookies...everything with my pastry and golden wheat. It takes a little practice to adjust the recipes a little, but it's not hard. My bread recipe is: 2 T quick yeast 1 1/2 cups flour 2 T honey or agave 1 to 1 1/2 cups warm water 2 cups buttermilk 2 T butter 1/4 cup vital wheat gluten 1/4 cup sweet whey powder whole wheat flour as needed Mix the yeast into the flour, then add the honey and water. Mix well and let it sit until you see the yeast activate (bubble). In the meantime I put the buttermilk and butter in microwave for 3 minutes. It separates and looks funny. No problem. After yeast is activated and buttermilk is just warm, add buttermilk/butter to yeast mixture and blend. Add gluten and whey powder and begin adding whole wheat flour 1/2 cup at a time until it is slightly sticky. Knead until you can stretch a pinch of dough a little without a break (that window test). Don't add flour until it's dry, but a nice playdough consistency. Put in a large bowl to rise double. Put your hands around edge of dough and gently deflate, stretching dough under itself and rounding into a flattened ball. Leave in bowl to rise again. Deflate again and divide in two loaves formed and place in greased pans. Rise until a couple of inches above pan and place in hot oven (350 F). Bake 40 minutes or until golden on bottom of loaf. *** The amount of flour it takes depends on moisture content, humidity, etc. So just practice until you're satisfied. My last two batches have been so perfect I can't keep it around. Good Luck! Linda --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n031.3 --------------- From: "Roz Macy" Subject: Need Breadman Ultimate pan Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:38:00 -0700 The bread pan for my Breadman Ultimate TR2200 is leaking heavily. Does anyone know where I can find a replacement pan? Roz --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n031.4 --------------- From: "Diane Purkiss" Subject: Steam Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 07:33:33 +0100 I throw some boiling water from the kettle into the oven - basically aiming for the oven floor - as the bread goes in. Generates lots of steam and doesn't lower the temperature. Gives a great crust on miche. Diane Purkiss --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n031.5 --------------- From: "Nora Brown" Subject: RE: grinding wheat Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 07:36:10 -0500 Hi Lisa, I used to work for an e-commerce store that sold mills and mixers for bread making. Montana Gold Wheat is a wonderful light flavored wheat if you have a fussy family that are not sure they like 100% whole wheat. There are several grinders out on the market, but they are generally about $200. The electric mills all work about the same. Check the warranty. There is nothing like fresh ground flour and then freshly made bread. So delicious. If I can be of any further help or answer any questions, please let me know. Helping other transition to fresh ground, whole wheat, home-made bread is what I used to do in my former job. :-) And I miss it. So please ask. Nora Brown (IL) www.soap-please.com/NoraB/ www.cozykitchen.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n031.6 --------------- From: Dan Haggarty Subject: Getting steam into the oven... Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 09:45:31 -0400 When visiting Paris about a month ago, I was able to see the wood fired oven in the basement of the original Poilane bakery at 8 rue du Cherche-Midi in Paris. I asked the baker how he made steam in his oven. He ladled some water out of a bucket, dumped it into a cast iron depression in the floor of the oven over the coals, and fitted the wooden door into the oven opening. No spray bottles, no ice cubes, just a pot of boiling water in the oven. If it's good enough for Poilane, it's good enough for me! Dan --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n031.7 --------------- From: Richard Nesmith Subject: grinding wheat Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 08:55:16 -0600 This is for Lisa, who wanted to know about grinding wheat. I have been grinding wheat, rye, barley, triticale, corn, and anything else I can comfortably stuff in my grain mill for about 2 years now. I have a Nutrimill. It's not so loud, as far as grinders go, and I can easily adjust the fineness of the end result. If you are getting started trying out freshly ground wheat, I suggest checking at your local natural foods store and seeing if they can grind for you onsite. You can get a small amount that way and see if you like it. In my area, there are Whole Foods, Wild Oats, and Vitamin Cottage. That way you can see if it will be worth the investment of a grain mill. I would suggest starting with hard white wheat, and having it ground pretty finely. Red wheat has a stronger taste, and if you are trying to sneak it past kids, the milder flavor of white wheat will go over better. The harder wheat has higher protein, which you will need to avoid doorstop whole wheat loaves. My favorite book for whole grain baking is the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book. Baking with whole grains is different from using white flour and their recipes are designed accordingly. Following their recipes will result in tasty, nicely textured whole grain breads. If you want to try that one out before buying, check your library. If they don't have a copy in their system they can get it through an interlibrary loan. You're on the right track with wanting freshly ground flour. Wheat kernels can be stored indefinitely, but once the kernel is ground, the wheat's oils are released and they go rancid quickly, resulting in a very disappointing loaf. Get your flour fresh and keep any unused portion in the freezer. I wouldn't bother with hand-powered grinders. Yes, they are cheaper, but they are a bear to clean, take forever to produce any useful amount, and many can't adjust the fineness of the grind. The inaccurately named Whispermill sounds like an airplane taking off and many users end up in the garage wearing hearing protection. My Nutrimill is only as loud as your average vacuum. Apparently the technology doesn't exist yet to grind grain without a fair bit of noise. I think there is a grain mill attachment for the KitchenAid but I don't know anything about it. Good luck and have fun. Not that I'm a purist, I still use plenty of white flour too, but whole grain baking is a lot of fun and it's worth exploring. Email me if you have more questions. Erin in Colorado --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n031.8 --------------- From: ALAN WOODS Subject: Re: grinding wheat/potato water Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 11:53:14 -0400 Lisa: I use a VitaMix to grind wheat berries into flour; you can also knead the dough in the machine, although I prefer to do that by hand (I personalize the dough as I punch it and slap it around; solves a lot of daily tensions). Mar: potato water feeds the yeast. Even better to mash the boiled potatoes and include them in the dough. cheers-- Alan --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n031.9 --------------- From: Dave Glaze Subject: Re: grinding wheat Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 11:00:17 -0700 Lisa Are you anywhere near a whole food store that can grind the wheat for you? You can use it fresh that way, or if you wish to buy larger quantities, you can put it in the freezer so the oils don't go rancid on you. I don't know of any inexpensive way to grind your own. I have an electric mill but it is expensive. You can get hand mills cheaper which are slower and require some muscle. I have never used one so can't tell you what they are like. Here is the site where I bought mine: http://www.pfenningsorganic.com/farm/millinfo.html Cheers Dave --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n031.10 --------------- From: "Jonathan Kandell" Subject: Re: getting steam in the oven Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 14:21:06 -0700 Two of my favorite ways to create steam for a shiny and textured crust: 1) Cold start oven, and put some water in a pan on the bottom of the oven. No risk of steam burn. 2) Cover the loaf with a large flowerpot plugged with a wide washer and a ring-bolt (or spend ten times as much for 'la cloche') for first fifteen minutes of baking. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n031.11 --------------- From: Stephen Remer Subject: Getting steam into the oven Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 05:01:46 -0700 (PDT) Thanks everyone for the ideas! Yesterday (Sunday) I tried hot tap water in the bottom of the broiler pan. It's very shallow and has a good size and I figured it was designed to be in a hot oven empty or nearly so. The water was gone 10 minutes into baking and the loaves had good oven spring. I hadn't thought of putting the water in during heating but will try that too. Thanks Again! Steve --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n031.12 --------------- From: "Frederick J. Krall" Subject: Getting Steam Into The Oven Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:03:06 -0400 I agree with everyone. I will make no enemies before my time. My method: Quarry tiles on top shelf; dry pan containing gas-grill briquettes on shelf below. Pre-heat oven to 50 F above recipe spec. Dough onto quarry tiles; 1 C boiling water into pan below when dough goes in. Close door, drop temp to recipe spec, leave it alone. ALSO--I cover the oven window with a dry dishtowel to avoid a cracked glass and expensive replacement. Remove towel before closing door (!). Rick Krall --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n031.13 --------------- From: "Rosalynn Gorski" Subject: RE: Grinding wheat Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 07:41:50 -0700 Lisa, I, too, had concerns about the health of my family and after much research, I chose the NutriMill grinder. It's quiet and can grind approximately 15 cups of wheat at a time. It can Also be used to grind corn for cornmeal, etc. It's extremely easy to use and clean and doesn't Leave a mess on the counter, like some of the others. I love it....my friends love it, and best Of all, my family loves it and it makes awesome bread. I bought mine through a Bosch Representative here in Arizona, but I'm sure you can find it on the web. I paid $214.00, on sale, last year. Good luck. ~Roz --------------- END bread-bakers.v105.n031 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2006 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved