Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:23:00 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v105.n037 -------------- 001 - "Nina & Bob Freeman" Subject: Heavy Duty Hand Mixers? Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:35:11 -0400 When I bake bread I do an eight to ten loaf batch so can't use a bread machine. This yields enough to freeze and enough to give away. I don't mind handling the big pile of dough but when in a hurry, I sure would like to begin with a hand mixer followed by the King Arthur Wisk and finally kneading on a countertop. The few hand mixers I've seen are rather "wimpy". My question is, are there any heavy duty hand mixers around (make and model) that use both regular beaters and dough hooks? Bob Freeman, Tallahassee, FL --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.2 --------------- From: "John & Wendy Wallis" Subject: more microwave bread recipes out there? (besides the English Muffin Bread) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:18:09 -0500 So there I was, making the posted recipe for English Muffin Bread in the Microwave........my family was about to commit me. "You can't make bread in the microwave!" They waited skeptically, with straight jacket in hand, to see if I had actually lost it this time. I'm hooked..........everything about it was great. I absolutely loved how fast and easy it was to bake it. I can see how wonderful it will be to not have to heat up the oven in the middle of the summer when we so want fresh bread but don't want the heat! It will never completely replace "good old fashioned making of bread", but there are times it would be nice to use this method. So now I'm wondering if anyone has other specific bread recipes (I mean traditional yeast bread, not quick breads like banana bread and so on) they have successfully made in the microwave?? I looked at Fleishmann's website and that is the only microwave bread recipe they have to offer. Didn't really turn anything up when I did a Google search either. I and many others will enjoy your recipes you share........as we always do on this great list! THANKS! -Wendy --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.3 --------------- From: "Paul and Ruth Provance" Subject: Bread in the Good old Summertime Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:46:52 -0400 Ken wrote: >Has anyone had any experience using a grill to bake bread other than >the pizza/flatbread? Dear Ken, Yes. It was over twenty years ago, but I did successfully bake bread in loaf pans in a Weber Kettle charcoal grill. I believe it was rye bread, but I don't suppose the recipe makes much difference. I do remember one of the neighbors remarking that it smelled very good! I used non-standard pans: 10 1/4 in x 3 5/8 in x 2 5/8 in. They are aluminum pans, made by Mirro, and I still use them in the conventional oven. They seemed to work well as they are long and narrow. If you don't have this size pan, try the 4 in x 8 1/2 in pans. Maybe you could put them end-to-end. My method was to start the coals and form them into two piles on opposite sides of the grill. I placed the risen bread in the two pans side-by-side in the space above where there were no coals. This is called using indirect heat. This method is also used for slow cooking large cuts of meat. I believe I probably rotated the bread partway through the baking so that the inside edges were outside to even the baking. Remember, this was well over twenty years ago, and I haven't done it since. I bake in the heat of the summer in my kitchen and hope the a/c can keep up! I think you can consider that the temperature inside the kettle with a regular load of charcoal is about 350-400 degrees F, in other words, baking temperature. There are thermometers you can get that you can leave in the bread while it is baking so you can monitor it, but I didn't use anything like that. I baked it until it passed the "thump" test. In looking at the Weber website, I didn't see any bread baking tips, but they do have a recipe for spice cake baked in a pan. I hope this helps. Keep baking! Ruth --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.4 --------------- From: "Mary Fisher" Subject: What are English Muffins? Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 09:48:33 +0100 I ask because I'm English and know that there is confusion even here in England about what's meant by muffins so I'd like to know what is meant in the Digest posts :- Mary --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.5 --------------- From: paulzjoh Subject: My old KA and pasta attachment Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 05:48:50 -0500 I wrote: >I have a 40 year old KA (the good ones, when they were made by >Hobart) the only attachment that was a failure was the pasta >maker. Machine didn't have the power to process the pasta dough. The attachment I was talking about was the pasta extruder, not the pasta roller. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.6 --------------- From: Bev Subject: fresh milk problem Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:35:10 -0500 Margaret asked about problems with her bread when she used fresh milk. I can say this, "Oh lucky you! Jersey cow milk!!! YUM". But I digress. I used to get fresh milk from friends and would scald and cool it before baking. I had read somewhere that the enzymes in fresh milk created problems with the finished loaf. Indeed, "old time" recipes for using milk in bread always call for it to be scalded. Store-bought milk, already having been cooked to death in the pasteurization process, has lost those enzymes. Enjoy! Bev C --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.7 --------------- From: "Adele Klingberg" Subject: Re: cloche Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:35:06 -0500 Ken Thanks so much for the instruction and recipe, but I also learned about the "La Cloche" name and Sassafras. I did not think that this item, which I had purchased for someone as a gift, was made by Sassafras, but was not sure. Now I understand. And also that I can use my Romertopf for the same application if I wish to. Your help is much appreciated. Adele --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.8 --------------- From: Dan Haggarty Subject: Re: Bread in the Good Old Summer Time Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 08:54:49 -0400 At Sun, 21 Aug 2005 12:11:10 -0500, "Kenneth McMurtrey" wrote: >Has anyone had any experience using a grill to bake bread other than >the pizza/flatbread? Yup, I've done a few experiments with bread baking using a barbeque. For my latest effort, I used a rectangular baking stone that I was able to position just above the normal location of the cooking grill. I made a Spanish Catalan Country Loaf that uses hard white flour with a 2 day pre-ferment and shaped it into a boule. I also used some small broken up bits of maple wood (without bark) wrapped in aluminum foil that added an interesting smoke flavour to the bread. I removed the cooking grills, placed the baking stone in the barbeque, positioned a couple of oven thermometers on top of the baking stone, a tin can of water above the burners, and pre-heated the grill to the normal cooking temperature as measured by the oven thermometers. I then turned the burners down almost to their minimum setting, slid the bread from a peel onto the baking stone, and added the foil wrapped maple pieces next to the can of now boiling water. After five or ten minutes there was a lot of smoke coming from under the barbeque lid so I removed the wood chips and after about 20 minutes I removed the can of water. In general, the process worked well. There was good oven spring (better than the second control loaf baked in the normal oven) and the bread baked in about the normal amount of time. With the smoke flavour it made great lunch sandwiches but it was a little burnt on the bottom. I think the baking stone was hotter than the surrounding air in the barbeque (and burned the bottom) because I kept opening of the lid to assess the baking process and watch the temperature. Next time, I'll try to be less curious and, when looking, open the lid just a crack to keep most of the heated air inside the grill. I also confirmed that barbeques normally get very hot so that one needs a light touch on the fuel controls to avoid baking temperatures of 600 F or more. Hope this helps, Dan --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.9 --------------- From: Stephen Remer Subject: Kitchen Aid Pasta Attachment Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:47:30 -0700 (PDT) I would agree about the the extruder and have never come across anyone who seemed happy with it. However, there is a set of rollers and cutters that work very well. I have used mine many times and found them excellent. When using these, I set the machine on the lowest speed. SR --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.10 --------------- From: lobo Subject: rye crisp Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 09:26:23 -0600 >From: Marcksmar@aol.com >Does anyone have a recipe for a rye cracker similar to Rye >Krisp? They seem not to be made any longer. >Mar Here are 2; I haven't tried either. Let us know if they work. from: http://recipes.chef2chef.net/recipe-archive/45/241363.shtml Title: Norwegian Flatbread Yield: 10 Servings Ingredients 2 sm potatoes, boiled or baked 1 and pureed in the blender 1 or food processor (about 1 1/2 cup) 2 c of rye flour 1/4 ts salt 1/3 c water or potato water Instructions "It is impossible to find a more spartan cracker than Norwegian Flatbread. It can be made with only rye flour, salt, and water, but adding a pureed vegetable, such as potatoes, increases the nutritive value and adds subtle flavor. This flatbread is excellent with mild cheeses. In a large bowl or in the food processor, blend the pureed potato, flour, and salt together. Add the water and blend well until the dough will hold together in a cohesive ball. With a sharp knife, divide into 10 equal portions. Turn these out, one at a time, onto a floured surface and roll into circles. Roll as thin as possible, at most 1/8 inch, so each is approximately 7 to 8 inches across. Prick all over with the tines of a fork. Lightly oil a griddle or large skillet and heat until it is very hot. One by one, place the rolled circles onto the griddle and cook until the bottoms begin to show light browning. Then turn and cook the other side. Keep turning until the whole cracker is dry and crisp. Do not allow the flatbread to get more than medium brown. Cool on a rack. Yield: 10. VARIATIONS: Substitute any pureed vegetable for potatoes. Flours other than rye can also be used. Try wheat or barley. If the dough is too sticky to roll, add a little more flour. Letting the dough rest for an hour after mixing will also make it easier to roll. Flatbread can also be cooked in the oven. Bake on an ungreased baking sheet at 400 F. for 8 to 12 minutes, or until crisp, turning 2 or 3 times. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I don't know where this one came from: Flatbrød, 1 1/4 cups rye flour, 1 1/4 cups white flour 1/4 cup corn meal 1/4 cup crisco 1/2 teaspoon salt 1 tablespoon sugar 1 1/4 cups boiling water. Mix the dry ingredients, then add the water to make approximately eight (8). --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.11 --------------- From: LAllin@aol.com Subject: Re: English Muffin request Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:12:28 EDT I agree, I no longer eat English Muffins, unless I get lucky and find Wolferman's at the grocery. I say lucky because the grocery stores in my area (suburban St. Louis) only have then sporadically. Maybe twice a year I will run into them. It is possible to buy them on the web for mail delivery but it would be so nice to have a recipe and make them fresh whenever I'm in the mood. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.12 --------------- From: LAllin@aol.com Subject: Re: Rye Krisp Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:12:23 EDT I don't have a recipe but, if you are referring to Ry Krisp Brand Cracker, made by Bremner, I do know they are still made . They are readily available in grocery stores here in the St. Louis area. Just a week ago I purchased a box and selected the Light variety from a choice of Natural, Sesame and Light. The sole ingredients in the Light variety are whole rye and salt. The website says twice baked, so I think the Light variety would be very easy to duplicate with a little experimentation. You might consider contacting Bremner to identify where they could be purchased in your area. There is a link on their website to order for mail delivery. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.13 --------------- From: Debunix Subject: Re: fresh milk Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:16:51 -0500 I believe there are enzymes in fresh milk that inhibit gluten formation, and this is why fresh milk must be scalded before use in bread. Just checking Rose's Bread Bible and she confirms it: protease enzymes in the milk will break down the proteins in the dough unless they are heat-inactivated by scalding. Diane Brown in St. Louis http://www.well.com/user/debunix/recipes/FoodPages.html --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.14 --------------- From: Corina Gaffney Subject: Swabian or Bavarian pretzels Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Dear Gloria, and all interested in authentic German pretzels, here is the article I posted on the list last year (click on the link): http://www.bread-bakers.com/archives/digests/v104n040.txt I think I have tweaked my recipe somewhat since the article, in that I use a little more butter now, and somewhat less water. I guess I'm making fewer pretzels now than before, because here's what I did last time (and the recipe made 16 pretzels - not huge, but about the normal size in Germany): 1 1/4 cups lukewarm water 2 teaspoons sugar 1 teaspoon salt 4 tablespoons softened unsalted butter 1 teaspoon lemon juice (the acid makes the dough rise higher) 4 to 4 1/2 cups bread flour Coarse or kosher salt for sprinkling Lye dip Here is the new website for the very helpful, step-by-step instructions, WITH PICTURES, for the making of the pretzels. The gentleman also gives you the instructions for making the lye dip. http://www.cs.uml.edu/~dm/brezla-2/index.htm Although in the digest article I gave instructions from a German cookbook also, I have not, nor do I recommend, boiling the pretzels in the lye dip. It isn't necessary, the bakery I visited in Germany didn't use hot lye, and I think boiling the pretzels would make them chewy, not crunchy on the outside, like Gloria wants. If your pretzels aren't crunchy enough outside, use slightly more water and less butter, and a higher temperature when you bake them. Watch them carefully, as they go from golden brown to dark brown rather quickly. Good luck! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.15 --------------- From: Marcksmar@aol.com Subject: Bread Machine and hot weather Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:14:44 EDT I invested in several electric appliances that don't give off much heat when I moved to Florida in a trailer. The bread machine is certainly one of them. The other is a Sun Oven which bakes out of doors in the sun. It has bread baking capabilities, but I have not tried it yet. As for the bread machine, I wouldn't be without it. Even when I make rolls or something that has to be shaped by hand, it makes a better knead than I am capable of and I can always finish it off with a few kneads of my own using the dough cycle or unplugging the unit before the baking begins and then putting the plug back in to bake without heating up the oven. Mar --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.16 --------------- From: Corina Gaffney Subject: More info on Swabian pretzels Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Here's the link for the lye pellets I purchased years ago, but apparently the company still sells them. This was the only site that (at the time) I could find that didn't require an affiliation with a university or a chemical or scientific license of some sort. I didn't research any further with this company now (I bought my pellets pre-9/11), but hopefully they still sell to the general public. If for some reason the link doesn't come up properly for you, go to www.vgdllc.com, and search for "Sodium Hydroxide F.C.C., No. S1303". This is lye that is safe for use in food preparation. I bought 500 grams about 5 years ago, and I still have more than half left (I don't bake the pretzels all that often, they are somewhat time-consuming!) http://www.vgdllc.com/pharmacy/Fine-Chemicals/17805-Sodium-Hydroxide-Pellets-FCC.asp Corina [[Editor's note: shows the food-grade Sodium Hydroxide, item number S1303 and includes a link to a site that accepts PayPal. They ship world-wide.]] --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.17 --------------- From: RisaG Subject: Re: bread from microwave oven ?? Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:29:50 -0700 (PDT) The only time I put bread in the microwave oven is to re-heat a roll or something like that, but if you don't eat it quickly it becomes like a rock! As for bread machines, I am on my 3rd one in 10 years and find them a great thing to own. I make magnificent bread with it. I wouldn't be able to make it if I didn't have one. I have no patience for a great deal of hand-kneading. My husband says I make bread just as good as bakeries. A compliment that took years for him to say. It just takes some patience, watching the dough form, making sure it becomes like a babies bottom! Then you can leave it to do its job. I usually make dough in the machine, form it by hand, and bake it in the oven. I have great success with it. So, the use of a bread machine is a great suggestion. Doesn't really matter what brand or how much you pay, just as long as you pay attention to the dough as it is forming. It shouldn't be too wet (unless you are making ciabatta) or too dry. It should be just right! RisaG Risa's Food Service http://www.geocities.com/radiorlg Updated 8/27/05 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.18 --------------- From: "Joy Alexander" Subject: Bread cooked in grills and microwaves Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 15:32:20 -0400 I live in South Carolina where our summer weather is as hot and humid as any other southern state. For many years, I made bread by hand and then with a Kitchenaid mixer and baked the bread in early morning. For several years now, I have had a Breadman Ultimate bread machine. I can now bake bread whenever I wish and don't have to concern myself about the heat in the kitchen. As far as taste, the bread made by hand and in the mixer was delicious, but the bread made in the bread machine is even better. Texture-wise, it is far superior for sandwiches because it is softer, I'm led to believe this is due to the extended kneading process of the machine. But if you want to beat the heat and still have great bread, splurge and buy a bread machine. Most are not that expensive so if you wish to use it only in hot weather, you won't have to feel guilty for the expenditure. That's my two cents worth. Joy --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.19 --------------- From: Gloria J Martin Subject: Pasta dough Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 00:01:25 -0500 I had to laugh when the person said making the pasta dough with the KA machine was like Lucy in the candy factory. A hand roller pasta maker is probably the best method. I've made lots of pasta that way. You can make the dough in the KA machine, or in a good processor and then follow the directions that come with the pasta roller. You can make several widths. It works best to have a pie pan with corn meal in it sitting under the roller and let the dough fall into it. Toss it every time you run a batch through and then lay it on a dry towel. The first stem is to divide the dough into several sections and then run 1 section through, fold it and run it through another time or two. Lay these sections out on the dry towel and then sprinkle them with flour. Do not let the lay there too long before cutting them or they will dry too much and fall apart. If you want to make the pasta the day before you are serving it, go ahead and cook it, 3 minutes only, in boiling, salted water. Drain in a colander and then run cold water through it to stop the cooking and then sprinkle with a small amount of olive oil, toss it and put it in a bag and refrigerate it. The next day, either bring a pot of water to a boil and drop the cooked pasta into it and then drain immediately, or add the cold pasta to the sauce and let it heat up. You also can freeze the bags of dough and when ready to use them, drop them in the boiling water for only 1 minute before draining. Incidentally, do not try to use the ravioli attachment unless you have at least 3 hands. Gloria Martin ggmartin2@juno.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.20 --------------- From: Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Skallywagg ...) Subject: Lucy, Ethel, Judy, and Judy's husband... Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 07:51:47 -0400 I just have to tell Judy how much I enjoyed her post about using the KA pasta extruding attachment. I've been reading posts on this list for a long time and this is indeed a classic. In case you missed it, I've printed it below. Bob the Tarheel Baker "I have a Kitchen Aid Mixer and bought the pasta extruding attachment. Man, what a mistake! I swear, it was like the Lucy and Ethel in the Candy Factory episode. My husband and I tried valiantly to "catch" the pasta as it came extruding out of the thing. The object of the game was to catch it and drape it on a drying rack. The dough just wasn't the right consistency and my husband would yell, "GET IT, GET IT, GET IT," as it came squeezing out. I'd try to gently take it and put it on the dryer, but it would just fall apart. While I was trying to pick it up and mash it back together, my husband would be yelling to get more! I was running from counter to counter in the kitchen, a nervous wreck. We ended up throwing the doughy mess away and the pasta attachment went to live in the garage. Judy" Bob's PS: While the entire post is fuuny, that last sentence is hilarious. ;- --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.21 --------------- From: "Allen Cohn" Subject: RE: Very fresh milk Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 09:29:51 -0700 Hi Margaret, Milk has an enzyme that breaks down protein, i.e., gluten. Perhaps fresh milk has even more of it. Try scalding the milk beforehand (hand removing the "skin" on top of the milk). That should remove/deactivate the enzyme and improve your bread. I've read that a little bit of oil in dough helps oven spring. I don't know whether the fat in the milk is a good substitute for the oil you added previously. At the very least, if you know the butterfat content of the milk (typically 3.6%) you can do some calculation on how much fat you've added and see if it's similar to the amount of oil you've left out. By the way, you shouldn't just substitute 1 cup of milk for each cup of water you omit. Milk only has 87.4% water (regular whole milk--don't know about the milk from your cow)! So for each cup of water you omit, you need to add 1.14 cups of milk. Allen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n037.22 --------------- From: Jeff Dwork Subject: About RyKrisp (aka Rye Krisp) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2005 12:57:03 PDT Having eaten a lot of RyKrisp (the correct spelling) over the years (although not much recently), I was surprised by Mar's post (bread-bakers v105.n036.012) saying that it wasn't made anymore. I was even more surprised by LAllin's post (in this digest) because I've never heard of Bremner. So I went searching... There are several google hits on the bread-bakers site. Russ Fletcher asked for the recipe in May 2004 ( bread-bakers.v104.n021.7). Marcel Blanchaer posted the same Norwegian Flatbread recipe from chef2chef (bread-bakers.v014.n022.4) that lobo posted in this digest. No other recipes - just lots of healthy eating sites telling us how good they are. The Bremner site spells the name "RyKrisp" and the shape of the words on the box doesn't look familiar. Everything else Bremner and its relatives in Ralcorp make are store brands - their crackers are claimed to be "high quality emulations of the top 20 national brand products". So I was sure RyKrisp was also a knock-off and the real spelling must be "RyeKrisp". Reinforced by seeing "Rye-Krisp(r)" on a healthy eating page at a major university, I went to the US Patent and Trademark office website and found out how wrong I was. The "Ry Krisp" word mark was registered on Oct 23, 1947 by Ralston Purina Corp. It was first used in commerce on Dec 5, 1904. The image of the mark has a small stalk of rye between the "y" and the "K", and the tail of the "y" curves under the "R", just like I remember. Go to , click "search" under trademark and select the basic search form. Use search term 71538813 and field "serial or registration number". After looking at the mark's image, click the "ASSIGN status" button to see that on Mar 31, 1994, the trademark was assigned by Ralston Purina Company to Bremner, Inc. to become their one and only product to carry a Bremner trademark name. The RalstonPurina website tells more of the story - how the company went from selling horse feed to human cereal and crackers to dog food, a professional hockey team, ski resort and batteries and finally to just dog and cat foods. But nothing about how to make RyKrisp :-) Jeff --------------- END bread-bakers.v105.n037 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2006 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved