Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 05:06:07 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v105.n041 -------------- 001 - Cindy Chiu - English Muffins 009 - LAllin@aol.com - Re: Wolferman's English Muffins 010 - "Crafty Granny" Subject: bread machine vs kitchen aid Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:56:55 +0800 (HKT) I find bread machine can always help to knead the dough and provide a good enviroment for rising even though some may not do a good baking job. The crust may be thick and hard and needed to be cut away. As far as making a dough is concerned, it helped to save my wrist pain. If a person also make cakes often, will the kitchen-aid be a more useful piece of equipment to have? View points welcomed. Thank you. Cindy Hk --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.2 --------------- From: "Jim Neuman" Subject: Melted salt on my rye bread Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:45:59 -0400 I can't get salt on top of my rye bread to stay hard. No matter how I have tried, the salt sort of melts into the crust. Then, if I get anything close to what I'm looking for the salt draws moisture by the next day making the bread soggy. I store in paper. Please help! Jim Neuman Life Is Good! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.3 --------------- From: Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Skallywagg ...) Subject: Dan Haracz's problem Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:49:10 -0400 Dan writes: My girlfriend absolutely loves it when I make it, but it'snever come out to my satisfaction. Bob the Tarheel Baker opines: As long as your girlfriend comes out to your satisfaction, quit while you're ahead, Danny boy. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.4 --------------- From: dmrogers218@comcast.net Subject: Re: English Muffins/egg whites Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:43:59 +0000 Why not take your favorite english muffin recipe and just fold in a couple of whipped egg whites and see what happens. deb --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.5 --------------- From: dmrogers218@comcast.net Subject: Re: Bread Puddings Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:27:51 +0000 This is one we like in the south. If you can't get Krispy Kreme donuts you will need to use a sugary donut. Those are the kind that melt in your mouth. Not one that is thick and chewy. I use the fruit cocktail with extra cherries or you can just add a small (drained) jar of chopped cherries if you want. I have also poured the rum sauce over the whole pudding (while it was warm) to take to family reunions. Bill Nicholson's Krispy Kreme Bread Pudding with Butter Rum Sauce Recipe courtesy Paula Deen 2 dozen Krispy Kreme donuts 1 (14-ounce) can sweetened condensed milk (not evaporated) 2 (4.5-ounce) cans fruit cocktail (undrained) 2 eggs, beaten 1 (9-ounce) box raisins 1 pinch salt 1 or 2 teaspoons ground cinnamon Butter Rum Sauce, recipe follows Preheat oven to 350 F. Cube donuts into a large bowl. Pour other ingredients on top of donuts and let soak for a few minutes. Mix all ingredients together until donuts have soaked up the liquid as much as possible. Bake for about 1 hour until center has jelled. Top with Butter Rum Sauce. Butter Rum Sauce: 1 stick butter 1 pound box confectioners' sugar Rum, to taste Melt butter and slowly stir in confectioners' sugar. Add rum and heat until bubbly. Pour over each serving of Krispy Kreme Bread Pudding. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.6 --------------- From: "qahtan" Subject: Re: Bread pudding Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:43:50 -0400 I also make a bread pudding, totally different to the ones posted. Bread pudding to a Londoner is more like a fruit cake, though heavier. Although made with bread, eggs etc it has lots of fruit and spice in it. The ones posted are known as bread and butter pudding, usually made with buttered bread, with a tad of marmalade, sugar, currants, and eggs and milk are mixed and poured over all, plus a good shake of nutmeg, it is then left to rest a while then baked in a water bath. The egg and milk mixture cook to a delicious custard.. yum.......qahtan --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.7 --------------- From: aqn@panix.com Subject: Re: unitconverters Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:53:22 -0400 (EDT) I use this exclusively: WWW Unit Converter http://www.digitaldutch.com/unitconverter/ -- Andy Nguyen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.8 --------------- From: EK Subject: English Muffins Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 06:16:23 -0700 (PDT) This is a recipe that appeared on the bread bakers list in 2002. It was apparently from Alan Zelt, and was posted here by Rick Krall. It makes the best English muffins I have ever tasted! EK Rick Krall wrote: To reiterate, this is about a 9-hour process but is well worth it for great flavor and chew. Authentic English Muffins Recipe By : Alan Zelt Serving Size : 14 Preparation Time : 9:00 Categories : Bread Four hour starter: 2 cup warm water 2 cup unbleached all-purpose flour 1/2 cup white whole wheat flour or regular whole wheat 3/4 tsp instant yeast Sponge: 2 cup overnight starter - room temperature 3/4 cup warm water 1 tsp yeast 3/4 cup scalded milk -- cooled 2 cup unbleached bread flour Muffin dough: sponge mixture 4 cup unbleached bread flour -- (approx.) 4 tbsp honey 2 1/2 tsp salt 4 tbsp dry buttermilk powder (Saco - optional) 2 tbsp corn flour or cornmeal 1/4 tsp cinnamon Overnight starter: In a medium bowl, stir together water and yeast. Let stand a couple of minutes to dissolve yeast. Stir in all purpose flour and whole wheat to make a thick batter. Cover and let stand 4 hours. Sponge: In a mixing bowl, stir together 2 cups of starter, warm water and dry yeast and allow yeast to dissolve for a couple of minutes. Stir in milk and bread flour to make a thick batter. Cover with plastic wrap and let stand 1 hour. Dough: Stir down batter and add the remaining starter, flour, honey, salt, buttermilk powder (optional) corn flour and cinnamon. Knead to make a soft batter (about 5 minutes). Preheat oven to 350 F; middle shelf. Cover and let rise until almost doubled in bulk. Gently deflate dough. On a work surface sprinkled with cornmeal, roll or pat out to a three quarter inch thickness. Cut into 3 1/2 inch rounds using a cookie cutter. Place on a baking sheet, cover lightly with plastic wrap and let rise until almost doubled (about 45 minutes). Set electric griddle to 325 F, or heat a cast iron pan (medium heat). Sprinkle cooking surface with cornmeal. Gently arrange muffins to fit. Bake until bottoms are browned, about 5-8 minutes. Turn over and do remaining side, reducing heat if muffins are browning too quickly. Finish muffins in oven 5-8 minutes, or until internal temp = 195-200 F. Cool well and split with the tines of a fork. For more 'holey' muffins, the dough must almost be a batter. Muffin rings can be purchased in a kitchen supply store - or, you may use large tuna cans (tops and bottoms removed). The rings support the loose batter and allow the muffins to retain their shape as they rise and bake. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTES : This recipe makes for impressive, crusty, cornmeal-coated English muffins. The interiors are at once moist and holey, characteristically rough textured and hearty. A combination of unbleached bread flour (available at bulk food stores) together with some white whole wheat flour (or regular whole wheat). A smack of butter and honey round out the taste. Don't overlook these because they use a starter. It's child's play. Sure, there are easier ways to make English muffins but they taste like you took the easy way out. These are exceptional. A large cast iron pan makes for a perfect baking surface. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.9 --------------- From: LAllin@aol.com Subject: Re: Wolferman's English Muffins Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:18:25 EDT >I'm still searching for the Wolferman's brand recipe with the beaten >egg whites in the dough. Check the Wolferman's website. If the kind you like are still made, you can order online or use the store locator to see if there is a seller in your area. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.10 --------------- From: "Crafty Granny" Subject: Help With hard crust. Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:12:27 -0700 I am fairly new at what I was trying to do. A friend gave me a sunbeam bread maker and I finally found the instruction on line so tried it out. But I did not want to make a loaf of bread I wanted to make Calzones I just was having the bread maker mix and need the dough. That is what the instruction said I could do for Pizza dough, it did that just fine. But when I baked them the crust came out really hard. Does anyone have any idea what I might have done wrong? I used to make bread and rolls a long time ago. But since I have become disabled I am not able to do the mixing and needing anymore. So I thought I could use the Bread Maker to do that part for me. I was hoping to teach my granddaughter to make Calzones this weekend. Does any one have any suggestion? Thank You Happy Crafting Crafty Granny --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.11 --------------- From: Dan Haggarty Subject: Re: Pane a cioccollato Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:02:08 -0400 In bread-bakers.v105.n040.21: >From: "Haracz, Daniel" >Subject: Pane a cioccollato > >I've got a favorite recipe that just doesn't work. >[...] >First, the pan. My recipe calls for a high sided (at least four >inches high) six-inch cake pan >[...] You might be able to find an appropriate pan at a bakers' equipment & supply shop or restaurant supply shop. Think suppliers to wedding cake bakers. Also, I used to make my Christmas cake in a steam table pan that was about 5" x5"x9" in size. Figure out the total volume required of the pan, and then find something with the same volume that you can bake with. And as for the bread itself, what's the recipe? Dan --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.12 --------------- From: Jonathan Kandell Subject: Re: Pane a cioccollato Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:15:47 -0700 "Haracz, Daniel" wrote, >Invariably I end up with a dense, chewy, slightly sticky crumb and a >misshapen, lumpen loaf. >... >the yeasty taste in the bread is always very strong. I am not sure what you'll think of my answer, but I find this bread turns out very well with dry yeast in a bread machine. First, the shape of the pan is short and high, just as you desire. Secondly, the texture comes out fine. Give it a try. I say that as someone who bakes most of my breads with sourdough by hand--but not that one. I got the recipe from European Breads for the Bread Machine. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.13 --------------- From: Mike Avery Subject: sourdough bread recipe Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:59:23 -0600 "Ratliff, Betty" asked for a sourdough recipe that works in a bread machine. As somewhat of a sourdough purist, I will focus on a real sourdough, one that is made without bakers yeast at any point. My feeling is that if you add yeast, you don't have sourdough any longer, because the yeast works so quickly that the sourdough doesn't have time to produce the flavors sourdough lovers want. So... can someone help? Probably not. It's kinda like that old joke about "You want it cheap, fast and good? Pick two and call me back." There are a number of issues with sourdough that a bread machine has trouble with. Most sourdough rises are in excess of four hours. Many bread machines can't handle that. Many bread machines move the paddle throughout the rise, "bumping" the dough. This will deflate the sourdough when it becomes more developed. Many bread machines don't offer you the option of disabling this feature, which does help a yeasted dough develop. Bread machines work on a fixed schedule. Even if you get a programmable bread machine, the program you setup will be adhered to with machine like obedience. If you tell it to wait 4 hours and then bake, it will bake in four hours, whether your dough is over risen and has spilled all over the inside of your bread machine, or if its only half risen - the machine has no way of knowing that the bread has risen enough, it can only go by time. Sadly, most hobbyist bakers don't take very good care of their starters, so the starters don't behave in a consistent manner. So, what's a baker to do? Once the bread machine has kneaded your dough, you can remove it from the bread machine, form a loaf, let it rise, and then bake it in your oven. This isn't as simple as you might like. Once the bread machine has kneaded your dough, you can pull the dough out of the bread machine, remove the paddle, and then put the dough back in. This isn't really difficult, but you are left with the inconsistencies most home bakers have with their starters. You could let your starter get really, really sour and then use yeast to complete the rise. This isn't a good way to get a sourdough taste, it is rather one dimensional, and is likely to lead to gluten degradation from the high initial acid load of the starter. Some people do the remove the paddle trick and go one step further. They unplug the bread machine from the wall. When the dough has risen enough, they plug it back in and use the bread machine's "bake now" setting. Not all bread machines have that option, and it may not meet your goal of "simple." Given that all these approaches fall down in quality and/or simplicity, how do the commercial mixes, like Krusteaz, make sourdough? They don't. Some use sourdough extracts and some use a mix of malic, acetic, and fumaric acids, in attempt to create what a chemist thinks sourdough bread should taste like. Some of them taste pretty good, but they really shouldn't be called sourdough. "Sourdough style" or "sourdough inspired" or "artificial sourdough" or "reconstituted sourdough" might be better terms. As a final note, some bread machines do offer a "sourdough" cycle. I haven't examined them, but suspect they are based on a mix of sourdough and yeast, and/or suffer from the problems discussed above. Sadly, there are some limitations to bread machines. If you can work within them, you can make some very nice breads, but there are some things they really aren't suited to do. Ultra dense breads, such as authentic pumpernickels, and sourdoughs are among the areas where bread machines have troubles. While this wasn't the answer you were looking for, I do hope it helps. Mike --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.14 --------------- From: "Allen Cohn" Subject: Re: sourdough bread recipe Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:27:29 -0700 Hi Betty, Unless your bread machine has a specific sourdough setting, it's unlikely that it's possible to make sourdough in your machine. Sourdough breads use little or no yeast. Instead, they rely on the natural yeast in the starter (one of the ingredients). This yeast works much more slowly than commercial yeast. Sourdoughs often proof for 4+ hours. The regular bread making cycle of most machines does not allow for this. Allen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.15 --------------- From: "Tom" Subject: Sourdough Rye Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:34:31 -0700 Hi, I am new to this list and have a few questions. I just started baking bread a few months ago because I wanted a good Rye bread with caraway seeds. I am following a recipe from the book Bread Alone (Sourdough Rye with Caraway Seeds). I have made this bread four different times now and the bread has has an exellent flavor but is a fairly dense bread (the recipe makes 3 round loaves each about 7" x 3" and 24 to 27 oz). I would like the bread to be lighter (i.e., a larger volume for the same mass) - how do I get the loaves to rise more. I have tried adding gluten to the flour which gives the bread a chewier texture but does not give rise to larger loaves. Also everything that I have read says that rye doughs will remain slightly sticky and to be cautious about adding too much flour when kneading. Can someone tell me just how sticky is slightly sticky? The last batch I made more on the wet (i.e., sticky side) and the loaves did seem to rise more but when I turned them over from their proofing bowls to the peel they slumped (flattened out) - thus I assumed this dough was too wet as it did not hold its shape. Thanks in advance for any insight...Tom --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.16 --------------- From: Elisabeth Keene Subject: Stovetop Raised bread Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 04:47:13 -0700 (PDT) My son now lives in Beijing, and he cannot get any bread that is really edible! He's used to my slow-rise bread! He doesn't have a real oven, only a tiny, tiny toaster oven, and two gas rings. In the past I've seen recipes for cooking yeasted bread in a frying pan, or in a saucepan, but I didn't pay any attention at the time! Has anyone done this? I will try to develop a recipe for him, but if anyone has any tips on the actual cooking part, I would be thrilled! Thanks a lot! Elisabeth --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.17 --------------- From: "Catherine Khong" Subject: tough sourdough... Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:31:29 -0500 I have been trying to make sourdough intermittently for years, reading different books. However, the texture is always the same - a very dense, hardened-dough, kitchen-top-sponge consistency. Not pleasant at all. What am I doing wrong? is this a sign of underproofing? I am using high quality bread flour. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.18 --------------- From: Kenneth McMurtrey Subject: Wolfermann's style English muffins Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:50:15 -0500 Mary Gubser published a recipe for English muffins that are supposed to be much like the Wolfermann's EM. Wolfermann's, in case you don't know, is an upscale purveyor of food in Kansas City. I remember driving by in the late 1950s but we were too poor to go in. Gubser's book, American Bread Book, 1985 is out of print although one with a similar sounding title appears to be available in paperback. It is a charming book. Her literary device is that the recipes were collected on several extensive trips around the USA - including Alaska if memory serves. There are lots of recipes of breads of various ethnicity, Moravian Feast buns, and Bohemian Kolaches, for example. Anyway, the EM recipe which I copied from notes I made a couple of years ago is: 2 pkg yeast 2 cups warm water 2 tsp salt 7 - 8 cups bread flour, approximately 1 tsp baking soda in 2 Tbsp. water 3 egg whites at room temperature white cornmeal Proof yeast in water in large bowl. Add salt and 3 c flour and beat until smooth. Blend in dissolved baking soda. Beat egg whites until softly stiff and fold into batter. Gradually add sufficient flour to make a soft, workable dough that pulls away from the sides of the bowl. Turn out on a floured surface and knead for about 5 minutes. Let rise until doubled. Punch down, knead lightly, cover and let rest 10 minutes. Roll dough out 3/8" thick (between 1/4 and 1/2") Cut out muffins with a 3" cookie cutter. Sprinkle s sheet of waxed paper [parchment paper might be better?] with the cornmeal. Place muffins on it and sprinkle more corn meal. Cover and let rise 45 min. Bake on an ungreased griddle over moderate heat, about 8 min. for each side. Cool on wire racks. Amazon.com lists several used copies of the book. Ken McMurtrey, Hattiesburg, Mississippi, still reeling from Katrina --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.19 --------------- From: FREDERICKA COHEN Subject: wonderful bread puddings Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 17:42:06 -0700 (PDT) What a wonderful response to my bread pudding request! The recipes are wonderful in number and in variety. I'll check in with you to let you know how much I enjoyed each of them. Again my thanks! Fredericka --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n041.20 --------------- From: Valerie Mates Subject: saying goodbye Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:53:00 -0400 Hi -- It's Valerie Mates. I've been on the Bread Bakers' list for 10 or 15 years, and I'm the person who did the design of the bread-bakers.com website. You know how people show up in the group from time to time and ask how to make bread without using wheat, rye, barley, and oats, because someone they know just got diagnosed with celiac disease and still wants to be able to eat bread? Well... I've recently found out that my three-year-old daughter and I have celiac disease, and it's looking possible that all of us in my family may have it. So, I've given away my flour and my well-used old bread machine (an ancient Zojirushi that I bought from the late Mr. Irwin Franzel on the Bread Bakers' list), and I'm moving on to a new life of much-less-satisfying bread -- and hopefully improved health. I've really enjoyed the Bread Bakers e-mail list for the years I was on it, so I wanted to say goodbye to you before I go. Good luck in your future pursuits, and happy baking! -Valerie Valerie Mates, Web Developer http://www.valeriemates.com valerie@unixmama.com (734) 973-2472, fax (501) 423-8432 --------------- END bread-bakers.v105.n041 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2006 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved