Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:15:32 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v105.n048 -------------- 001 - "Ken Vaughan" Subject: Storing in the Fridge -- Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:07:38 -0900 Cooks Illustrated did a piece on bread storage -- Because many people store bread in the refrigerator, we were intrigued by the number of products that claim to keep bread from staling at room temperature. To compare the options, we purchased a number of models: old-fashioned bread boxes made of wood and metal, a stainless steel "canister" bread box (the lid is on the top), a plastic-lined twill bag, expandable acrylic and plastic bread keepers, heavy plastic bakery bags, and paper bags made from polyethylene-lined "Freshness Paper". We measured moisture loss by weight from both sandwich and artisinal bread stored at room temperature in each model. We also stored one loaf of each type of bread in the bag we purchased them in as well as one loaf of each type in the refrigerator. While a couple of the bread keepers did a good job at minimizing moisture loss, within just three days all of the artisinal loaves were shrunken, discolored, and firm - in other words, they staled. The bread stored in the refrigerator fared even worse, hardening within a day or so. Why? According to food scientists, the major reason that bread stales is not moisture loss, but rather a process called retrogradation, in which the starch molecules in the bread crystallize. Retrogradation occurs about six times faster at refrigerator temperatures (36 - 40 F) than at room temperature, thereby making the refrigerator the worst choice for bread storage. However, the retrogradation process does slow down significantly when bread is stored below freezing temperatures. Risa G noted that she can reverse the retrogation with the micro wave and toaster. CI noted Because retrogradation is accelerated by cold temperatures, it's logical that it would be reversed by heat. Anyone who has ever softened stale bread in an oven or microwave has witnessed retrogradation reversal. Ovens don't add moisture, but when stale bread (bread with crystallized starch) is heated to temperatures above 140 F, the crystals break down, softening the bread, (140 F is the gelation temperature of wheat starch -- that is, the temperature at which the molecules form a gel). I leave it out a few days and then freeze after slicing. The slices process through the toaster to make good morning toast for the rest of the week. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n048.2 --------------- From: Dave Glaze Subject: Re:Eggs in hydration calculation Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 20:40:59 -0800 If you need to know the composition of any kind of food, you can get it through the USDA site. Google USDA and choose "Food and nutrition center". From there you can explore the entire site. The link below will take you to a part of the site that will give you lists of foods showing lists of foods with the amount of particular nutrients. Other places in the site allow you to do other kinds of searches. http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=9673 Hope this helps. Dave Glaze daveglaze@shaw.ca --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n048.3 --------------- From: Subject: refrigerating bread Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:38:38 -0600 To the list: I bake a sourdough starter rise whole wheat bread at least every ten days.. This produces (it varies with the shaping) four standard size loaves of bread. After cooling I freeze three loaves and leave one in the refrigerator. If I don't refrigerate the loaf being used it stales rapidly if left out. I don't know what the sourdough use has to do with this, if it has any, but it's what works for us. Joe Quinton j_r_quinton@sbcglobal.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n048.4 --------------- From: "Diane Purkiss" Subject: Bread in paris - further thoughts and replies Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 06:22:38 -0000 LKR wrote: >Dear Diane, >Thank you for the wonderful and thorough report. You really >sacrificed, I see. [g] Yes, it was noble of me, wasn't it? I know no greater pleasure than to get up early and walk to a just-opening boulanger. >>3. Le Boulanger du Monge >>As excellent as ever. Magnificent bagueete - best I had. > >Where is this bakery located? It's in Rue Monge, in the 5th. The bakery is in the jardins des Plantes quartier, down near Censier-Daubentin metro. We usually stay on the Ile st Louis, and it's about a 15 minute walk from there. >>4. Poujauran in the 7th, Rue Cler area. >>Wonderful novelty breads, like a baguette de sept cereales and good >>pain au figues (how do the French make this so light? Basic breads >>were good but not sensass. > >Do you have any sense of what the seven cereals were? Were they a >large part of the dough and was it white dough? This sounds like fun >to try to replicate. Creamy dough, and among the cereals were definitely some seeds and whole grains. I thought there were sunflower seeds, oat and wheat grains, and corn in the flour mix that coloured it. Next time I'll ask! >>6. Le Grenier a pain, rue d'Italie 13th. >>The review in Palmare said croassants were grreat, but it was the >>bread that was outstanding; magnificent baguette a l'ancienne > >What is this type of baguette like? Ah, you must read Steven Kaplan for the detail, but it has a creamy crumb (not parched white), a crust not unlike but thinner and cracklier than a boule, soft rich forest-brown with a dusting of flour, an irregular banette shape with a single slash. I ADORE it with raw butter. >>Also worthy of note was the dark, voluptuous, almost unctuous olive >>bread at Flora in Av George V, a restaurant well worth it >>anyway. Everywhere else also had nice bread. Memorable walnut >>bread with cheese at Hiramatsu. > >What was the dough of the olive bread like? What sort of olives did >it have? This also sounds like a good project. I'm KEEN. She does have a cookbook, but the bread wasn't in it. Offhand, I'd say from the thick unctuous deep almost black crumb that pureed olives and a LOT of olive oil were involved. Like black velvet. Not too dense, either. >Did you go to Poilane? My personal favorite. It's funny, but I never do in Paris - well, not never, but usually not when I'm only there for a few days - because there's one in London, so it's less of a novelty. I do love his bread, of course I do, but I've had it quite often and I'm in search of the new, always. Week after next, I'll be ready to tell all about bread in Venice. I note to my surprise that Faith Willinger says it's mainly not good because you can't make good bread in a damp climate. Huh, thought I, tell that to San Francisco, but is she right? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n048.5 --------------- From: "dalepadams@juno.com" Subject: composition of eggs Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:19:50 GMT Hello to all the friendly bread bakers on this list. I am responding to the person who wants to know the amount of water in eggs. My information comes from the U.S. Department of Agriculture's book called Composition of Foods. My edition is several decades old but I figure that the information on eggs has not changed much over the years. This book has information on chicken, duck, turkey, and goose eggs. Information is given on whole eggs, both raw and cooked several different ways and on yolk and whites separately. It also has information on dried eggs. The composition of raw chicken eggs is summarized as follows: 73.7% water, 12.9% protein, 11.5% fat, 0.9% carbohydrates. The remainder is minerals and vitamins. I hope this is what you wanted to know. The information in this book is most likely what is used to calculate composition of foods that is present on nutritional labels on foods, since components are weighed into vats for processing in the food industry. You do have to know the approximate weight of eggs that you are using in your recipe in order to calculate the actual amount of water that eggs are adding. This composition is for the edible portion (shell not included). --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n048.6 --------------- From: Gonzo White Subject: Thanksgiving Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:41:13 -0600 As I was sitting here making out my Thanksgiving day menu I happened to think of someone who deserves a very special thanks. Regina and Jeffrey without whose tireless efforts this email and the web site would not exist. So my thanks to both. While I am on the roll, why don't more people say thank you? And I don't mean to Jeffrey and Regina. I mean the people who ask questions and then never reply to the people who help them. I would bet that not 1 out 10 people who ask questions ever reply to the people who answer them. Is it really so hard to type thanks and hit reply? It's just simple, common courtesy. Try it. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n048.7 --------------- From: lobo Subject: mixing procedure question Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:40:57 -0700 I'm on Day 2 making Nancy Silverton's Raisin Brioche from BREADS FROM THE LA BREA BAKERY. Can someone explain why her mixing procedure is so complicated? You mix the sponge, half the eggs, flour and sugar for 2 minutes on medium speed; then you add the salt and mix 2 minutes; then the rest of the eggs until they're incorporated; then you add 9 oz of butter a bit at a time into what already feels like dough that's ready to raise. It takes forever to get the butter in and then you beat the heck out of it some more! My usual procedure is to mix some of the flour with all the liquid ingredients, shortening, salt and sugar and then mix in the rest of the flour. Everything's well incorporated with my method. Silverton's method might make sense to me if it were a muffin recipe and things were to be barely mixed, but after you get all the ingredients into the bowl with this brioche, you beat the heck out of it anyway! If we like the recipe, I'll make it again sometime using my method unless someone can give me a really, really good reason for doing it her way. It will have to taste pretty spectacular for me to spend a half-hour just mixing ingredients again! She also says to grease the pans with butter .... my experience has been that butter burns and the bread sticks. And she also wants me to heat the oven at 500 F for an hour before putting the bread in! If my thermometer says it's at 500 F after 15 minutes, why should I waste electricity for 45 minutes! If you didn't already guess ... some teachers and bosses have been irritated with me for saying "Why do it this way when there's a better and easier way to get the same result?" Unless, of course, you have a good reason and can convince me ..... I'll always bow to logic. Lobo --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v105.n048.8 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Holiday bread favorites Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 13:43:40 -0800 What are your favorite breads for the holidays? Tell us - and include the recipes. Reggie --------------- END bread-bakers.v105.n048 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2006 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved