Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 08:20:31 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v106.n027 -------------- 001 - "Allen Cohn" Subject: RE: Crusty French Bread/Chilling Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 06:19:40 -0700 "STEPHEN BLUMM" writes: >If I make dough and want to chill it, put it in a cooler, take it on >a trip, and bake a few days later, am I better off letting the dough >rise at home, shaping it, and then chilling it? > >Or should I chill it as soon as the dough is made, and let it rise >the day I want to bake it? Overnight in the fridge is one thing, but several days? I suspect that the long rest will allow too much time for the natural enzymes to degrade the gluten and thus be bad for your bread. For example, I let my sourdough starter rest in my fridge for a week or two (extreme, I know) between feedings when I'm not using it. By the end of that time, the normally stiff dough is practically pourable. This is an extreme example of the type of deterioration that I fear might happen to your dough. If you can keep food frozen, I think you'd be better off making the bread completely at home, freezing it. When you're ready to use it on your trip, just thaw it and then pop it in the oven briefly to crisp up. (It's also possible to underbake it slightly--par bake it--but typically certain adjustments need to be made to the formula, and I'm not familiar with this. It might also be possible to freeze the dough, but again I'm not familiar with the adjustments necessary. Allen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n027.2 --------------- From: "Allen Cohn" Subject: Re: Bottled water Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 06:19:40 -0700 Hi Risa (and others), When you say you bake with bottled water, do you mean filtered or distilled? There's a big difference. I've only heard that the problems are caused by distilled water. Allen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n027.3 --------------- From: Lois Silverman Subject: Robin Hood Flour Success! Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 09:26:56 -0400 Thanks to everyone! Found Robin Hood Flour in Syracuse--50 miles from our house. I bought enough for at least 6 months. Didn't try Walmart but will when I need to restock. Thanks again. Lois Silverman ltsilver@adelphia.net --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n027.4 --------------- From: dorism6220@aol.com Subject: KA Repairs? Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 10:41:01 -0400 Our church has two old Kitchen Aide mixers that need repair - speculation is that they may be 40 years old. They are heavily used 2 days a year. I was planning to find a repair place in the San Francisco Bay area (suggestions?) but the ladies indicated that they may be too old to fix. If I need to find a replacement, they seem to be leaning towards a more commercial grade mixer. Any suggestions are welcomed. Thanks Doris --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n027.5 --------------- From: rvh@inteliport.com Subject: Re: Crusty French Bread/Chilling Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 13:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Stephen: You are right on target. I assume you're talking about pain a l'ancienne from BBA. Make the dough, mix and knead per instructions. Then chill right away. No rise in the room temp. You can keep this for AT LEAST THREE DAYS under refrigeration. The only thing that happens is it gets MORE flavor. I never can last more than 3 days without baking it so I can't say if you can go longer. The other option is to complete the bread, bake it and freeze the loaves to travel. Warming is simple at the other end. May all your crumbs be flavorful! Later, Rich-in-nc --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n027.6 --------------- From: "Mike Scott" Subject: How do I make my own sourdough rye? Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 13:38:45 -0400 Hi, Living in Toronto, I have been eating Dimpflmeier's fabulous rye bread's for years. My favourite is a 100% rye bread called '100% Sauerteig Roggenbrot'. It is made using whole grain rye flour and a rye sourdough. I would love to try my hand at making it. Has anyone had experience making such a bread? If yes, can you share some tips with a novice bread maker? Thanks. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n027.7 --------------- From: francinemorin@netscape.net Subject: vinegar-y odor question Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 09:35:23 -0400 Dear Marie, If you use a sourdough starter this link may explain the smell coming from your oven and how to fix it: Here is their explanation, which I think I have seen in my sourdough kept in the refrigerator for long period: "Typical sourdough actually may contain three different types of microorganisms. We all know about yeast and those bacilli that produce lactic acid. There may also be different bacilli in your dough, namely ones that produce ordinary vinegar or acetic acid. There is also the possibility that there are still different microorganisms in there, but you usually don't want that to happen. Worst example are the bacilli that produce a kind of acid that also makes very old butter stink. Each microorganism has its own favorite temperature. The bacilli that produce lactic acid like rather high temperatures of 37-40 degrees C or 99-104 degrees F. The bacilli that produce vinegar are active only if there is yeast that has already produced alcohol. (Yeast always does that, it never produces gas without producing alcohol, so the word "alcohol" should not alarm anyone.) Those bacilli like rather low temperatures, 20-25 degrees C or 68-77 degrees F. Personally, I want lactic acid and not vinegar in my sourdough. You can tell the two apart by the fact that lactic acid tastes sour, but does not smell sour. Also, vinegar escapes as a gas during the baking process as well as during storage of the bread, whereas lactic acid stays. Yeast will grow (multiply) fastest at 24-27 degrees C or 75-81 degrees F. (Yeast also needs oxygen to multiply.) Yeast will produce gas fastest at a somewhat higher temperature, namely 30-32 degrees C or 86-90 degrees F. So, my own conclusion from all this is: the temperature which you use to maintain the starter will, in the long run, affect the kind of microorganisms you have in there. If you want lots of lactobacilli, use higher temperatures when refreshing the starter. If you refresh your starter at comparatively low temperatures, you may get a dough that smells sour and contains a lot of vinegar, but the resulting bread isn't all that sour. -Andreas " Francine --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n027.8 --------------- From: Popthebaker@aol.com Subject: Re: la'Ancienne process Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:46:28 EDT The la'Ancienne process is to hydrate the dough, rest for 20 minutes, knead in the bowl with a wet hand and then transfer to a container and place directly in the refrigerator for 12 to 72 hours. After retardation remove the dough and continue the fermentation until the dough is double in bulk. Essentially the refrigeration slows the fermentation but allows the other enzymatic and bacteriological processes to slowly proceed. Pop --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n027.9 --------------- From: "Barrie J. Lax" Subject: Re: french bread recipe (v106.n026) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 15:23:41 -0400 Here is the recipe I mentioned last week. I decided to go for a true French Bread texture, so opted for a very slack dough and minimum kneading with no punch down. also added a little oil, mostly to enhance keeping quality. ----------------------------------------------- Barrie J. Lax (Collection) TITLE: Peasant Bread KEY: ABM/Oven AUTHOR: The Bread Machine Cookbook DATE: November 5, 2001 COMMENTS: Adapted. Excellent French Bread ------------------------------------------------ Water 1 1/2 cups Oil 1/2 tsp Flour 3 1/2 cups Canadian A.P. Tap once. Salt 1 tsp Sugar 1 tbsp Yeast 3 tsp PreHeat oven to 500F (or highest possible) Set Zo as follows. Preheat 9 min (or omit all together) Knead 6 min. Rise 1 hr. Divide dough in two and roll and stretch to baton shape. Place in French Bread (double baguette) pan. Slash if desired. Allow to rise in warm place for another hour. Place in oven and reduce heat to 350F. Spray oven with water after 10 minutes. Again after another ten. Bake 30 to 35 minutes until done. ----------------------------------------------------------- This bread is excellent, large holes and great crumb. Very close to best bought French baton or baguette. Try as a Cuban bread, placing in cold oven and heating to 375F. --------------------------------------------------------------- I use Canadian AP flour which more closely approximates French flour. Dough should be very slack and stick to pan and kneading blades. Knead just enough for smooth dough to form. Do not punch down. Dough will depress enough on handling. Original recipe was baked in a loaf pan at 375F, egg washed and sprinkled with sesame seeds. Also bakes in ABM. --------------- END bread-bakers.v106.n027 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2006 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved