Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 08:00:22 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v106.n035 -------------- 001 - "Katie Kondo" - rolls do not rise 005 - Will Subject: when to feed starter? Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 14:32:52 -0700 I've been working with sourdoughs for awhile now, but there is a question that I have been unable to find the answer to. When using a sourdough starter, should it be fed immediately before using? Or should I feed it a few hours before and then use it in my dough? Before baking with my starter, I make sure to wake it up (I usually store it in the refrigerator) three days before, feeding it three times a day until the baking day. Thank you? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n035.2 --------------- From: "Mary Fisher" Subject: Bread oven Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 10:48:11 +0100 To all those who asked about the construction of our stone bread oven, I SHALL be replying. We've been very busy recently with various activities, including Spouse's medical investigations. He goes for a prostatectomy on 12 September, while he's in hospital I might - might - have more time. But all your messages are flagged and will be dealt with. Thanks for your patience, Mary --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n035.3 --------------- From: Jessica Weissman Subject: Rose Levy Beranbaum's Bread Bible Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 06:55:54 -0400 I have the book in my library, and use some of the recipes and techniques (the rice flour dusting one among them). But I always double the recipes, as it's a lot of effort for just one loaf. Also, as Ms. Berenbaum herself implies in the headnotes to several recipes, she seems to have a closer natural affinity to sweet tastes than to things such as rye. Nothing wrong with that - I think that her rye bread recipe is a real achievement, and all the more so because she says it is far from her favorite taste. My favorite bread books are Jeffrey Hamelman's Bread: A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes, The Italian Baker by Carol Field, and Maggie Gletzer's Blessing of Bread, Martha Rose Schulman's Great Breads, and George Greenstein's The Jewish Baker. It may not be a coincidence that most of them predate the artisanal bread craze though the recipes are every bit as good and the techniques in the ones that focus on technique every bit as well worked out and viable. There's a lot of gold in some of those older books. Bernard Clayton's big bread book is also fabulous and comprehensive, and has lots of full-flavored and rewarding straight dough recipes. Some days I don't want to mess around with a preferment. I just want good bread. - Jessica P.S. My nominee for Most Unjustly Overlooked Bread Book is Beatrice Ojakangas' Whole Grain Bread by Machine or Hand. There are a few typos, which she says were introduced in the publication process, but the recipes work and some are a bit unusual without being strange or pointless. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n035.4 --------------- From: Subject: rolls do not rise Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 7:29:40 -0400 >"Because the kitchen is large and is open to the family room, it is >hard to have a warm kitchen without drafts. My rolls do not rise >like they used to in my previous house. This is very very >frustrating and I am trying to figure out how I can make them rise." for a draft-free enviroment, let your roll dough rise in the oven, without turning it on. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n035.5 --------------- From: Will Subject: Re: rolls do not rise Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 08:21:15 -0500 Katie wrote: >I recently moved into a new home and have been having trouble making >one of my tried and true dinner roll recipes. Because the kitchen is >large and is open to the family room, it is hard to have a warm >kitchen without drafts. My rolls do not rise like they used to in >my previous house... I solved this problem for about $20. Went to WalMart, though a number of places would do, bought a variable temp. heating pad, $17, and a RubberMaid storage box $4. Chipped a small hole for the electric with a box cutter blade, about 5 minutes work. Be sure your box selection fits your various baking setups: baskets, sheet pans, etc... Place a clean damp sponge it there, load it it up. Works great. And, best of all... is predictable. Dough rises on schedule. Will --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n035.6 --------------- From: Ellen Lee Subject: Rising problem Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:55:53 -0400 Katie, I live in upstate NY, where except for some beastly hot summer days when I wouldn't bake, anyway, my tree-shaded house temperature rarely is warm enough to make dough rise without a bit of help. I use my oven, warmed until 100 F is reached and then turned off. Opening the door for a couple of minutes cools it down just enough. Dough rises beautifully, and if it's in the formed final rise, I leave it there, set the temperature for the desired setting, and turn on the oven to bake the bread or rolls. It hasn't failed yet. Another method I have used is filling a bowl or pan with hot water and putting it in the oven's bottom rack without heating the oven and put the dough on the top rack. That works, too. You can construct proofing boxes fairly easily, but I let my oven do the work. Ellen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n035.7 --------------- From: "db1753" Subject: Re: Katie raising rolls Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 16:11:24 GMT Katie asked about Baking Rolls in a Kitchen that is Open To Family Room. We had a large kitchen on the farm and Mother had a trick that worked for her. She sat the pan on top of the radio which gave it just enough heat to warm the pan to make the dough work. It never failed. Today I don't suppose the radio or TV would give off heat enough. I have sat mine on the top of the stove on a large baking pan that brings it up under the stove hood lamp and that worked. You just need to find a warm place. Sometimes you can heat oven a little bit, turn it off and sit the pans in there. Not too much heat or it will ruin them. Be sure you are covering the pans with cloth or plastic to hold in the heat. If you have a sunny spot the heat from the sun should make them rise. I think I shared the story of my grandmother who took a failed batch out and buried it when she was newly wed and didn't want her husband and father-in-law to see her failed dough. The November sun came out warmed the dough and it rose above the ground. Her new husband, my grandfather, came in and said "Kiddo, come see this mushroom - it's the biggest thing I ever saw." He knew it was her dough but had to tease her. It just needed a good heat source. Sue Ellen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n035.8 --------------- From: "STEPHEN BLUMM" Subject: Elizabeth David's book Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 13:41:12 -0400 Elizabeth David's book on English bread baking was mentioned recently. In this book she mentions letting dough rise in a container of cold water. Has anyone ever tried this? Does it work? Or have any advantages? Stephen Blumm --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n035.9 --------------- From: "King's Crown" Subject: Baking Rolls in a Kitchen that is Open To Family Room Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 10:50:55 -0700 Hi Karen, I have this exact problem and the way I've gotten around it is to do all my rising in my oven. It's draft free. In my previous oven I would even turn the light on for the perfect bread rising extra warmth. The oven I have now has a proofing temp. YEAH! Now I won't have to keep turning the light back on, because hubby thinks it's been left on for no reason. : Lynne --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n035.10 --------------- From: lobo Subject: re: Baking Rolls in a Kitchen that is Open To Family Room Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:52:30 -0600 My mom used to let bread and rolls rise in the oven, and I use this method on cool days when bread doesn't rise as well. Turn the oven to 200 F for 2 minutes, then turn it off and put the bread in. The oven will be just a little warm and, of course, there's no problem with drafts. The only danger comes if you usually cover your bread/rolls with a dishtowel while they are rising and you forget to remove the dishtowel when you turn on the oven to bake! Lobo --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n035.11 --------------- From: "Mr RICHARD ELLIOTT" Subject: Re: Baking Rolls in a Kitchen that is Open To Family Room Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 14:54:21 -0400 My kitchen too is drafty so I have found bread will rise if placed in my Microwave, not turned on. I find no need but you could put a container of warm water in with the dough if you find it necessary. Another option can be found at www.sourdoughbreads.com It is a very simple and inexpensive proofing box. Take a look if you do not like the Microwave suggestion. One or the other should solve your problem. Happy baking................................Jack --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n035.12 --------------- From: "William and Audrey" Subject: Re: Baking Rolls in a Kitchen that is Open To Family Room Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 15:40:27 -0600 My answer to this problem is to turn your oven ON and let it get to "warm", cover your rolls as you usually do, turn the oven OFF, put them into the oven and let them rise. If your rolls don't cover more area than the space in your microwave oven, you can put a little water in a micro-safe container and let it heat up some so it preheats the oven, remove the container and put your rolls in, shut the door and they'll rise nicely in there as well. Either of these solutions works well in drafty, cool kitchens. Happy rising and baking Audrey Konie cvesk@montana.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n035.13 --------------- From: RosesCakeBible@aol.com Subject: Re: a plug for rose Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 18:51:02 EDT whew! when i saw the title "a plug for rose" in the index i panicked thinking someone was reproaching me for such an unabashed self-promotion (of my book)! au contraire, i have to thank you ellen for the extraordinary praise. what more could an author possibly want?! especially as i sit here in my country place during what is supposed to be our vacation, pain-stackingly writing up the detailed directions for financiers and wondering if it will be valued. we bakers know that baking recipes are harder to write than most any other--it's often torturous. but i'm always grateful for the details when i go back to my recipe years later and still know how to do it as i am grateful to others such as peter reinhard and maggy glezer! so it's a real joy to know that others think so too as opposed to writing me off as a maniac for detail! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n035.14 --------------- From: "Joyce Esfeld" Subject: Raising rolls in a draft Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 22:22:56 -0500 Katie had asked about helping her rolls to rise. She can purchase an inexpensive plastic "under the bed" storage box (available at most discount stores - Rubbermaid or Sterilite). Measures approximately 6 inches deep x 14 inches wide x 20 inches long and will hold a sheet pan. If you place the pan in the plastic box and also insert a small liquid measuring cup that contains hot water, she will have heat and humidity. Be sure and snap the lid in place to contain the heat and humidity. It works like a charm. A deeper storage box can be tiered and hold several baking sheets. Ideal conditions for proofing are 90 degrees and 90% humidity. This same thing can be accomplished in a small oven or microwave. The problem with an oven is the rolls must be removed to preheat the oven. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n035.15 --------------- From: Stephen Remer Subject: Pizza in the pan vs pizza on the stone Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 08:12:07 -0700 (PDT) I use a Lodge cast iron griddle. Mine is reserved only for pizza use. An hour before baking the pizzas, I put the griddle in the oven on the lowest shelf and turn the heat up as high as it will go. By the time we bake, the griddle is rocket hot. The pizzas come out with a crust more like the wood fired ovens then I seem to get with a stone. The bottom is darker and more like the Neapolitan type places I have been too. Even at the same oven temp, the stone just doesn't do as well I think. I wish I knew why... it almost seems like the iron transfers heat to the dough faster or something like that... --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n035.16 --------------- From: Popthebaker@aol.com Subject: Pizza: Pan or Stone Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:05:22 EDT Allen, Pizza is simply bread with something on it and the crust type is one of personal choice. Almost any flatbread can be made into a pizza including Focaccia, Naan, and Pita. While thick crust (Chicago style) and thin crust are both pizzas there are more types than just those two. For thick crust I would suggest lining the baking pan with parchment and then liberally oil it with Olive Oil. Thin crust, at least for me, is better cooked directly on a baking stone. I have found that most pizza stones available in the retail market are rather anemic and do not have enough mass to be a proper heat sink. The most common stones are about 3/8 inch thick and made of fired clay. I have used a 3/4 inch thick stone from Fibrament (www.bakingstone.com)for around eight years and it works well. I had to trim mine with a masonry blade to fit the when I replaced my stove but now they have multiple sizes. One key is to adequately preheat the stone, a minimum of 30 minutes at temperature. Your statement about the pre-heated stone is correct. You could place a pan on the stone with some increase in heat transfer; however, placing the pie directly on the stone is the preferred method although placing the pie on a round of baking parchment does make sliding it onto the stone easier. Simply fold a sheet of parchment into quarters and cut around the edge to form a round of appropriate diameter. I preheat the oven and stone to the hottest temperature the oven will attain, 550 F. in my stove. Commercial pizza ovens operate much higher than that and it can't be generally duplicated in a home oven. Also, make the crust as thin as possible and don't overload with sauce or toppings. Hope this helps, Pop --------------- END bread-bakers.v106.n035 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2006 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved