Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 06:44:24 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v106.n047 -------------- 001 - "D. Beeckler" Subject: No Knead Bread Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 07:34:08 -0600 I hate to post such bad news since there were so many good reports about the No Knead Bread. I tried it and it was awful. Perhaps I did something incorrectly. I used white-wheat flour and a little extra yeast (because how could 1/4 tsp be enough :). I noticed there was no sugar at all - what feeds those little yeasties? - So I added some - not much. I placed it above my freezer which is where I raise all my bread. After 24 hours there was still very few bubbles and just a little increase in size. So I dumped it on the counter and lots of liquid ran all over. I added more flour to pull it all together, plopped it in the bowl - oh well - followed the rest of the directions and wound up with a less than desirable result - little rise and kind of a sour taste. What is the problem? #1 I used rapid rise yeast, it works every where else, why not here, #2 How can you handle already risen dough and put it in a hot pan and #3 Shouldn't there be some sugar or some other sweet in it? D. Beeckler --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n047.2 --------------- From: Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Tarheel Boy) Subject: That "No Knead Bread" Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 08:47:34 -0500 Hi, guys. Happy holidays to all of you. I want to comment on two things about that "no knead bread": Julie wrote that because she has made this bread twice so far, she feels can stop trying other artisanal type breads. Not me, Julie. Part of my joy in baking is that I can try all sorts of recipes. Some work and some don't, but I could never limit myself to just one. Carolyn submitted Mark Bittman's follow-up article on "no knead bread" wherein he states the instant yeast, called for in the recipe, is also called rapid-rise yeast. Au contraire, Marky baby. There is a big difference between these two types of yeast. Personally, I never use that rapid-rise stuff. Happy baking in 2007, gang. Bob the Tarheel Baker --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n047.3 --------------- From: dmrogers218@comcast.net Subject: Re: sticking Le Creuset Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:10:26 +0000 Cindy - Almost everything I cook in a Le Creuset pan sticks. Soups, spaghetti sauce, chili, etc. Even simmering with a heat diffuser between the stove eye and the pan. No matter what I do. Hot pan/cold oil, etc. The only thing I use it for now is pot roast in the oven. Maybe try just an old black cast iron pan. deb in Georgia --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n047.4 --------------- From: Mike Avery Subject: Re: Carl Griffith's 1847 Oregon Trail Sourdough Starter Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:09:49 -0700 Well Russ, I'll give you the same answer that you got when you asked the same question in rec.food.sourdough. Carl's has a very high success rate, and almost always works. When it doesn't work, the usual reason is that the person having problems let the starter sit around too long before they tried to revive it. Still, other stuff can happen too. In your shoes, I'd send off for another Carl's, or try Mr. Baker's sourdough starter. Also good is the King Arthur starter. I would avoid, at all costs, the Goldrush starter. Mike --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n047.5 --------------- From: "Mary Fisher" Subject: Re: Convection Oven & sticking pan Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:44:32 -0000 >My oven quit working and the cost of repairs were about the same as >replacing it with a new conventional oven. Instead I have chosen to >spend a little more and buy a convection oven. Two problems! One is >that it will not be installed until December 22st. The second is >that I do not know how it will affect my bread baking - both bread >and rolls. Can anyone help me, please. I don't even know what a convection oven is but I'm sure yo'll get used to it. What I do know is that if any major appliance is going to fail in this house it will wait until just before Christmas (or any other day when we're making a feast for lots of people). We had to buy a Kenwood Major instead of a standard sized one (never regretted it) because the shop had none and I needed it, a large dual fuel cooker instead of a standard gas cooker (never regretted it) and a new automatic washing machine (never regretted it) over the years, all in such circumstances. Oh, the extra installation work at such a time! Still, they've all served us well. Panoic, in my case, was a good spur, I'd not have even thought about buying what I did under duress! ***************** >Everything looked fine as I was ready to place the dough into the >very hot La Cruset pan, then the dough stuck to the floured >towel......which wasn't my biggest problem. When the bread was >finished baking, I couldn't get it out of the pan! It was stuck fast. My attempt at no-knead stuck to the inside of my Creuset pan too. It wasn't thrown away but I haven't bothered doing it again. I suspect there are different types of lining used by Le Creuset. I'd asked elsewhere and assured that it would be fine :- My cast iron pan (with a cast iron lid with a non-stick lining which can be used as a frying pan) has an enamel finish. It is NOT non-stick, I've discovered! The recipe itself had no advantages to my normal baking method and it had some drawbacks so I'll stick with it. That doesn't mean it's without merit for some - possibly most - people but I need to bake a lot more than one loaf at a time, to save energy. Mary --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n047.6 --------------- From: "Katie Kondo" Subject: Re: Carl Griffith's 1847 Oregon Trail Sourdough Starter Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 11:44:56 -0800 Hi Russell- For a long time I wanted to bake sourdough bread but had no access to a good starter (didn't want to make my own). The best advice I got was to just go into a bakery that I loved and ask them for some. Fortunately, at the time, I was living in Berkeley and just went over to Acme, brought a jar in with me, and asked them for some. They filled the jar so full that the starter was exploding out by the time I got home. Anyways, moral of the story is, find a good artisan bakery in your area and just ask them for some. Most good bakers are really willing to help another baker out (as evidenced by this fabulous list) and they will probably be happy to give you some of their starter. Hope that helps! ~katie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n047.7 --------------- From: "Diane Purkiss" Subject: London bakeries: critical commentary Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:24:06 -0000 Steven, I'm not a traveller. I've lived in the UK for almost 20 years, and I shop in London once a fortnight. People (in London) are always saying how marvellous London food is nowadays, which generally results in a kind of boosterism rather than a thorough assessment. Actually bread in even top restaurants is often seriously substandard: Gordon Ramsay, for example, buys it in from bakeoff land. And it shows. Of the top joints, only the Fat Duck had acceptable bread. Note that I said acceptable. Raymond Blanc's at the manoir was stale, last time I ate there. I love Le Champignon Sauvage, but the bread was the weak point of the whole enterprise. Compare and contrast with Veyrat, Bras, Savoy, Le Grand Vefour - hell, even Flora or Hélène Darroze. Opinions differ healthily. From your list, I think no baker would rival the best of Paris, Venice, SanFran or NYC. Maybe the London Poilane, but that IS the best of Paris and not indigenous. I thought De Gustibus's much touted bread dreadful (really dreadful), and Baker and Spice not much better. I'm also not fond of Euphorium or Flour Power City (industries). Clarke's is too concerned with flavoured bread (rather like Poujauran). For me, none of the bakeries you cite is a patch on St John, but Lighthouse is about the pick of them. Oh, and Hobbs House in Tetbury (Gloucestershire) is perfectly ok but not in any way great. Sorry, folks. Still some distance to travel for a good loaf. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n047.8 --------------- From: debunix Subject: Re: "no-knead" bread with sourdough starter Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:09:20 -0600 >Has anyone tried adding sourdough starter to this bread? Yes, although I've been adding some aged starter that is not in prime condition for adding lift--more for a bit of a flavor tweak. 100g starter to one recipe, coming out a bit heavy still, would probably improve a lot if the starter were more recently fed. And I dissolve the starter with the water at the beginning. --diane in st. louis http://www.well.com/user/debunix/recipes/FoodPages.html --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n047.9 --------------- From: Larry Klevans Subject: Panettone Recepie Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 19:27:39 -0500 I submit this every December. [[ Editor's note: Thanks to Larry for submitting this again. The copy in the recipe archive (b4q01.txt, not the digest archive) had some serious errors - missing the sugar and 3/4 of the water. It has been fixed. ]] Panettone #13 Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 C Water -- Very Warm 5 Tbsp Butter -- Melted Or Softened 5 Tbsp Sugar 3 Tbsp Nonfat Dry Milk 1/2 Tsp Salt 1/2 Tsp Vanilla 1/2 Tsp Almond Extract 1 Egg 3 C Bread Flour 2 1/4 Tsp Yeast -- (one package) 2 Tbsp Pine Nuts 3 Tbsp Candied Fruit -- Or Dried Fruit 1/2 C Raisins -- Soaked In Rum Or Water and Well Drained This is the recipe that I have used for years to make Italian Christmas bread. It is wonderful. This is a bread machine recipe for traditional Italian fruit bread. It comes from the DAK gourmet Gazette. It works very well in the Breadman Ultimate Machine. I use the 2.0 pound nut and fruit bread setting with a light crust. Also I load the pine nuts into the dispensing tray and push the "Extra" button to have the nut dispenser open. When the dispenser opens, about 8 minutes before the end of the kneading cycle, I add the candied fruit. Three minutes later I add the raisins. The bread comes out of the machine very soft and needs to cool on a rack for about 30 minutes. Larry from Maryland --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n047.10 --------------- From: jbr2.bread-bakers@xemaps.com Subject: Re: Carl Griffiths 1847 Oregon Trail Starter Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 13:21:03 -0800 Russell, If you only waited a total of ten hours then this is your problem! Starting up a sourdough starter takes days not hours. Just be patient and follow the instructions that should have been provided with the starter which should include several refreshments over a period of several days. jbr --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n047.11 --------------- From: Ellen Lee Subject: Sourdough starter Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 07:40:07 -0500 I use the starter from King Arthur; it's still going strong after several years. I dried some active starter and mailed it to a friend. It took a few days after hydration and feeding, but it worked well for him. I also froze some as an experiment but have not yet tried reactivating it. Have you tried making your own starter? I found that it worked wonderfully when I lived in Texas but not in upstate NY where I live now. Hence, King Arthur to the rescue! Good luck! Ellen --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n047.12 --------------- From: Haack Carolyn Subject: convection cooking Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 04:59:55 -0800 (PST) Gerald, I have enjoyed a Wolf in-wall double oven for several years now. It offers convection, but I still have choice -- it offers a regular 'bake' mode as well. So do be sure you know what you options are. The biggest thing about the convection is that the heat is more even and is spread faster, so usually I set the temperature about 25 degrees below what the recipe recommends. The evenness of the heat distribution really minimizes the need to rearrange pans half-way through; occasionally I do rearranage to get more perfect browning, but often this isn't needed. (Though after too many decades of baking, it's hard to restrain my hands!) With the slightly lower setting, I usually don't need to change the baking time for bread. If you're roasting meat or a bird, you might want to take advantage of the time compression and leave the temperature where it's specified; the protein will cook just a little faster. In the beginning, just pay closer-than-usual attention to how the dish is progressing; it's possible to have food that's done on the outside but NOT done on the inside -- a special disappointment if it's your favorite loaf! Hope your investment pays off in many wonderful loaves...keep us posted! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v106.n047.13 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Archives updated Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 20:50:10 -0800 The archives at www.bread-bakers.com have been updated to v106.n046. Best wishes to all now and in the coming year. Reggie & Jeff --------------- END bread-bakers.v106.n047 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2006 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved