Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 04:16:13 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v107.n008 -------------- 001 - Socko47@aol.com - No Knead Bread 002 - Mike Avery Subject: Re: Sourdough Issues Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 08:43:09 -0700 Jim Shaw (jshaw@serion.co.nz) wrote >I have made sough dough bread using Peter Reinhart's recipes as a >basis for about 4 years now - mostly on a weekly basis. Recently I >have been having a lot better success and there are two possible >reason I think - probably both are significant. (Note I have adapted >the recipes based on other books and web postings I have read so >there are other variables too but these are the most significant. > >1. I now feed my starter much better than I used to and ensure it is >really lively before using it. That is probably the biggest factor. I get more emails from people viewing my www.sourdoughhome.com web page because they don't feed their starter enough. Too many people take their starter out of the fridge and start making bread. Which is a lot like someone waking you up at 2:00 AM and insisting you run the 100 yard (or meter) dash. The mantra I use, which is probably more illustrative than literal, is "if your starter can't double itself after a feeding, it can't double your bread either." I usually take my starter out of the fridge about 3 to 5 days before I plan on baking and start feeding it to insure it is vibrantly alive before I start to bake. >2. I now keep the dough warmer during rising - I don't think 67F is >warm enough - maybe 75F would be better. It being summer here in NZ >right now helps a lot and bread tends to rise too rapidly. Actually, most professional bakers shoot for a dough temperature of 78F. And to get there, they use the "rule of 240." The rule of 240 is something like this, "subtract the temperature of your flour, the room temperature, and the dough temperature rise while kneading from 240. The result is the temperature if the water you should use to mix your dough." The dough temperature rise while kneading is due to the energy applied to the dough during kneading. If you knead by hand or do stretch and folds in lieu of kneading, the warm up is usually negligible. However, if you are using a mixer, especially with whole grain doughs, there is a very real temperature rise. Use a chef's thermometer to measure your dough temperature as the dough first comes together, and then again at the end of the kneading. The difference is the temperature rise. I have seen a temperature loss when I had a very cold bakery and a very cold stainless steel mixing bowl. In that case, you still need to use the temperature gain... of say, -10 F. So, if your room is at 85F, your flour is at 80F (though more commonly the room and the flour are at the same temperature) and you have a 15 degree temperature rise in kneading, you'd calculate 240-80-85-15, or 60F water. In colder bakeries, you'd use warmer water; in warmer bakeries you'd use colder water. In some cases, I've used ice water to get the temperature where I needed it to be. >What I am doing now is starting with 100gm of poolish I double it a >couple of days after the last use (from the fridge) and leave it in the fridge. Poolish? I thought you were using sourdough? Poolish is a technique for using minimal yeast to make breads. A very different technique from sourdough After bakers yeast became available in the mid to late 1800's (depending on where in the world you are), bakers quickly adopted it. It meant no more feeding starters, and promised a higher degree of consistency to careless bakers. However, bakers soon realized there were two problems with bakers yeast. Bakers are very frugal and they didn't like paying the yeast companies every time they made bread. Sourdough starter was essentially free since all the flour and water that went into the starter later went into bread. Also, yeasted breads didn't have as much taste as sourdough breads, which bothered customers. The Italians developed the Biga, and the Polish developed Poolish. The Austrians learned it from the Polish, and the French learned it from the Austrians. (Some claim the French called it "Poolish" because they didn't like to credit the Polish with anything.) When I make my Poolish based breads, I make a Poolish 12 hours before I start final dough preparation. Here's a poolish recipe based on "The Bread of Three Rivers" which I call "Gunnison River Bread," to show you how a poolish works. This recipe will make ten 1.5lb loaves of bread. 12 hours before you intend to bake, prepare a poolish by mixing: 1440 grams water 1440 grams bread (strong) flour 1.2 grams instant dry yeast Allow to stand 12 hours. The poolish should rise to a peak and just begin to fall at that point. The poolish should be light in texture and should have at least doubled. When you are ready to make the bread, mix together: 1580 grams water the poolish from above 3360 grams flour 9.6 grams of salt and 1.1 grams of yeast. Knead until developed. Allow to rise until doubled. Gently deflate, form into 770 gram loaves, allow to rise, then bake at 375F until done, usually about 35 to 45 minutes. This has been tailored for a high altitude, 7,700 feet above sea level. You may need to increase the riser and hydration slightly. To put this in perspective, this is about 2/3 of a packet of yeast. It makes 10 loaves of bread. Normally a packet is used to make 1 loaf of bread. The bread has a wonderful flavor, and even people who tell me, "I don't like WHITE bread" like this one. Sadly, Reinhart has been a bit loose with some baking terminology, and has commented that he wished he hadn't used some words the way he did in his earlier books. Mike -- Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com part time baker ICQ 16241692 networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230 wordsmith Once seen on road signs all over the United States: Santa's Whiskers Need no trimmin' He kisses kids Not the wimmin Burma-Shave --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n008.3 --------------- From: "Allen Cohn" Subject: Re: starter feeding and temperature Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 08:12:05 -0800 Hi Jim, Yes, I think you are onto something. At the bread school I treated myself to (San Francisco Baking Institute) they taught us to keep our starter at room temperature and feed it optimally 3 times/day. (Two will do, one isn't so great.) Maintain your hydration ratio with each feeding. And the optimal ratio of old starter to new flour + water will depend on the frequency of feedings and the hydration. They also taught us to ferment sourdough at 76-78 degrees F (non-sourdough at 74-76). Allen Home baker San Francisco --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n008.4 --------------- From: Tarheel_Boy@webtv.net (Tarheel Boy) Subject: Schiaccata Bursting with Raisins Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:09:12 -0500 Is it okay to bake something other than that damned no-knead bread? ;-))) If so, here's one I made over the weekend. Bob the Tarheel Baker Schiaccata Bursting with Raisins SPONGE 2 tablespoons active dry yeast 1/4 cup sugar 1 cup warm water 1 cup plus 2 teaspoons unbleached all-purpose flour DOUGH 3 tablespoons Vin Santo or another sweet wine 3 tablespoons warm water 2 1/2 cups unbleached all-purpose flour 1 teaspoon sea salt 2 teaspoons aniseed, slightly crushed 1/2 cup (1 stick) unsalted butter or best quality lard, room temperature, cut into 8 equal pieces TOPPING 3 cups raisins that have been soaked in Vin Santo or another sweet wine About 6 tablespoons turbinado sugar To make the sponge: Whisk the yeast and sugar into the warm water in a large mixing or mixer bowl and let stand until frothy, about 10 minutes. Stir in the flour in 2 additions, then cover tightly with plastic wrap and let stand until bubbling and doubled, about 30 to 45 minutes. To make the dough: Beat the liqueur and water into the sponge. If you are making the dough by hand, mix together the flour, salt, and aniseeds and stir them into the yeast mixture in 2 additions. Beat in the butter or lard 1 piece at a time and stir until well blended. Knead on a lightly floured work surface for 7 to 10 minutes, or until stretchy and elastic. If you are making the dough in a heavy-duty electric mixer, mix the flour, salt, and aniseeds into the yeast mixture with the paddle attachment. Stir in the butter or lard 2 pieces at a time. Change to the dough hook and knead for about 3 minutes, or until the dough is slightly sticky, elastic, and can be pulled into peaks with your fingertips. First rise: Place the dough in a lightly oilled container, cover tightly with plastic wrap, and let rise for 30 minutes. Second rise: Divide the dough into 4 equal pieces and roll each into a ball. Place each one on parchment paper or on lightly floured rimless baking sheets or peels, cover with towels, and let rise for 1 hour. About 30 minutes before you plan to bake, preheat the oven to 425F with a baking stone inside, if you have one. Shaping: Lightly oil two 10-inch metal pie pans or springform cake pans. Take 1 round of dough and flatten it so it fills the bottom of the baking pan. Cover it with a layer of wine-soaked raisins and sprinkle with about 1 tablespoon of turbinado sugar. Flatten and stretch out a second ball of dough.place it on top of the raisins, and flatten it to cover the raisin layer. Pinch the edges together very well. Cover with a second layer of raisins, press them lightly into the dough, and sprinkle 1 to 2 tablespoons of turbinado sugar over the top. Repeat with remaining dough and raisins in the second baking pan. Baking: Place the baking pans in the oven on the baking stone and bake for 15 minutes. Reduce the temperature to 375F, tilt the pans to collect the sugar syrup, and spread it over the top of the dough. Continue baking until the top is golden brown 15 to 20 minutes. Let cool for a few minutes in the pans, then slide the schiaccaiate out and let cool on a rack. Makes two 10-inch schiacciate, serves 10 to 12. Variation: Use fennel seeds instead of aniseeds. Source: Carol Field's "Focaccia" --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n008.5 --------------- From: lobo Subject: no-knead easier Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 19:10:21 -0700 My cousin mixed the no-knead bread in her big Tupperware bowl and let it rise there too. Then she just spatulaed it over on itself 4 times, and dumped it seam side down into the baking pot. She said it worked great and she didn't have to mess with a floured pastry cloth. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n008.6 --------------- From: Gloria J Martin Subject: No Knead Bread Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:48:59 -0600 For the life of me, I can't understand why people insist on messing with the recipe. 3 cups of Bread Flour is 15 ounces. The 1/4 teaspoon of SAF yeast and the salt (I have added 1/4 teaspoon) 1 1/2 teaspoons, stirred together, then the 1 5/8 (or 13 ounces) of water stirred in works perfectly. I let mine rise at least the 18 hours. I turn it out on a sprayed Silpat (I can't get enough flour on a towel to keep it from sticking). I sprinkle the dough with a very little flour and fold it over on itself once or twice. No attempt is made to stiffen the dough. I also spray my hands, and I use the Silpat, lifting it from side to side to help fold the dough. I cover it with an sprayed plastic wrap and let it rest the 15 minutes specified. Then I spray my hands again, and using the Silpat, form a sort-of round shape--I don't worry about it being an actual ball--it is too soft for that. The reader who suggested using a colander to keep it from spreading too far had a bright idea. Spray the top inside of the colander and put it over the dough. Cover all with plastic wrap so it won't dry out. Let it rise for the 2 hrs. specified. One half hour before the 2 hr. period is up, turn oven on to 450F and put in the item you are going to bake the bread in. I have the best success using a crockery baking container of 5 qts. The once from my Crock Pot is perfect. The lid is glass and the knob is ceramic. I don't spray the container at all. When the 2 hr. rising time is up, I pick up the Silpat and literally "dump" the dough into the container. I shake the container after the dough is in to settle it and even the top out a bit. I put on the lid and bake it for 30 minutes, uncover it and continue baking for 15-20 minutes. Then I remove the hot crock carefully and turn it upside down and the dough falls out on a rack. I pick it up with hot pads and turn it over to cool. Yes, the dough is 'too wet' for normal doughs. The normal proportion is 1/3 cup liquid to 1 cup of flour, but this is not 'normal bread'. I think the 18 hour rise tastes better than a shorter one. I have not used the corn meal or bran, but I could if I liked it on the outside of the loaf. I normally do not eat bread unless I'm desperate. I don't even eat sandwiches unless they are hot, like a hamburger or grilled cheese, because I don't care for bread, but I think this is wonderful. I like it toasted and buttered or as is and buttered. It's wonderful with soups and stews. My thanks to Jim Lahey for sharing this with us. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n008.7 --------------- From: Piper965@aol.com Subject: Breadman Plus Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 20:13:41 EST Hi, Picked up a Breadman Plus machine at a garage sale at church. Thought I would make bread and sell it at church for a fund raiser. No instructions or recipes. The box shows that it makes 3 different sized loaves. Anyone know how to work one of these? It has several different buttons to push??? Would like a simple but good bread recipe that works well in this machine. Maybe a white bread and a whole wheat. Thanks, Jim Winston --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v107.n008.8 --------------- From: "Diane Purkiss" Subject: Good bakeries in Manhattan? and - er - Miami? Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 14:34:19 -0000 Hi, all. I wish I had the pen of Shakespeare so I could sing to you all the joys of Philippe Martin's baguettes de l'ancienne (rue St Louis en L'Isle) and by the way, did anyone mention that the little red Michelin regional guides are wonderful on bakeries? Enough of this wittering, however. I'm off to New York in 10 days and am keen to bite the Big Apple's best bread - and above all, best bagels. I know Amy's Bread existed because I have the book, but apart form that I am clueless. I'd be very interested in your recommendations. Right after that I'm going to Miami - business, not pleasure - and wondered if there's anything fabulous and Cubanish down there in the bakery line? Many thanks to you all, Diane --------------- END bread-bakers.v107.n008 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2007 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved