Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:13:59 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v108.n016 -------------- 001 - "Chris Nelder" - Favorite pumpernickel recipe 008 - "Schmitt, Barbara E." Subject: re: Windowpane (kneading) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:41:18 -0700 Jim, my guess is you need a higher protein flour. Many all-purpose flours are around 9% protein and you need more like 13%. Try mixing King Arthur Unbleached Bread Flour and their Whole Wheat flour 2 to 1 and see how that works for you. The higher protein flours are more expensive but it's worth it! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n016.2 --------------- From: Mike Avery Subject: Re: keeping sourdough starter alive Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:06:00 -0500 >Due to a recent injury, I won't be doing any baking for a few >months. Any suggestions on how to keep it alive with the least fuss >till I'm back in the game? Sure. Feed your starter at about 65% hydration so it is good and thick. Over a period of 2 or 3 days feed 180 grams of starter with 180 grams of water and 300 grams of flour. Repeat this twice a day. When the starter rises nicely between feedings, feed it one more time, fill a mason jar 1/2 full, cover it and put it in the fridge at once. It will last a good long while without forming hooch or dying. I've kept starters like this far longer than I care to admit. Thicker and freshly fed starters last longer than thinner and more mature ones. Mike Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com part time baker http://www.sourdoughhome.com networking guru Skype mavery81230 wordsmith A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day: Experience is directly proportional to the amount of equipment ruined. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n016.3 --------------- From: MA Subject: Re: windowpane Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:08:21 -0700 Jim, I don't know what the window pane test is, never have used it, as I bake basic breads but have been doing so for close to 30 years. I usually knead my bread dough using my faithful KitchenAid mixer. It takes about 7 minutes to knead the dough using the mixer. By hand it should take about 10 to 15 minutes, at a good guess, until the dough is elastic. I used to knead dough by hand but it's been a long time. To knead by hand, fold and turn the dough 1/4 turn, until the dough is elastic. Also, I stick to using bread flour or use King Arthur AP flour. Finally, I now make bread using the food processor. I have a 14 cup Cuisinart and a 12 cup KitchenAid food processor. Both make two loaves of bread using 3 cups flour for each loaf. For this method, I add all the dry ingredients including the yeast, and give the food processor a whirl. I then add the liquids and then carefully knead the dough. it only takes a couple spins to knead the dough. Then I let the dough rise, shape, rise again and bake. I learned to bake using the 1951 and 1956 Betty Crocker cookbooks. Both have good directions and photos on how to bake bread. Mary --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n016.4 --------------- From: Mike Avery Subject: Re: Windowpane (kneading) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:10:20 -0500 I have a number of videos on my web site about kneading. In teaching classes I found two constants were that people were sure they knew how to knead and that they didn't know how to knead effectively. You might look at http://www.sourdoughhome.com/kneadingconverting.html Also, many people have luck with an alternate technique called stretch and fold which I feature at http://www.sourdoughhome.com/stretchandfold.html The videos are a bit large, so it helps to have a fast connection. Mike Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com part time baker http://www.sourdoughhome.com Once seen on road signs all over the United States: He tried To cross As fast train neared Death didn't draft him He volunteered Burma-Shave --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n016.5 --------------- From: Mike Avery Subject: Re: German Pumpernickel Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:14:07 -0500 Steve Gomes asked: >Any better ideas for nice dark rye bread? and while I got your ear >has anyone come up with a way to have ten minutes of steam in the >oven? I don't want to spray the oven with a squirt bottle. I tried a >pie tin with a little water and that might work but we need to see >if anyone has a better idea. It might not be bad, but it ain't German and it ain't pumpernickel. For a look at what REAL German pumpernickel is like, surf over to http://www.samartha.net/SD/procedures/PPN01/index.html I've been to Germany, I've had the real deal, and Samartha hits the nail on the head. He also has lots of good rye information on his page. Mike Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com part time baker http://www.sourdoughhome.com networking guru Skype mavery81230 wordsmith Once seen on road signs all over the United States: Are your whiskers When you wake Tougher than A two-bit steak? Try Burma-Shave --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n016.6 --------------- From: "Mary Fisher" Subject: Re: what to do while unable to bake Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:12:45 +0100 Tony Lill wrote: >Due to a recent injury, I won't be doing any baking for a few >months. Any suggestions on how to keep it alive with the least fuss >till I'm back in the game? Write a book on bread making. Do NOT plagiarise! It probably won't get published, there are so many of them, but you'll learn a lot through your research. Oh, and God speed your recovery :-) Mary --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n016.7 --------------- From: Subject: Favorite pumpernickel recipe Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:10:07 -0500 Steve asked for a good pumpernickel recipe. Real Pumpernickel uses sourdough. But not to many of us want to keep a special sour dough for making pumpernickel bread. This is a compromise. It makes a really good loaf of bread. Quick Sour Pumpernickel This is one of my favorite recipes. You can either make rolls or just leave the dough in the ABM to make a loaf of bread. It must be started the night before. But that is not much of a problem as long as you plan on it. Starter: 1 1/2 cups Milk 2 cups Rye Flour 2 Tbs Gluten 2 tsp yeast Add the above ingredients to the ABM and let knead for about 10 minutes. Reset the machine (turn it off) and leave the pan in the machine overnight or 6-8 hours. 2 Tbs Vegetable oil 1/2 cup Molasses 2 Tbs Unsweetnd Cocoa 1/2 tsp Salt 2 tsp Caraway or Fennel seed 1 cup Whole wheat flour 1 Tbs Gluten (Optional) 2 Tbl Pumpernickel flavor (from King Arthur) 1 1/3 cup Bread Flour 3/4 cup Raisins (optional) Add remaining ingredients and start machine as usual. If making the loaf in the Machine use the specialty bread setting and add the raisins at the beep. (If you add them to early they get ground up) You can usually find the gluten, rye flour and whole wheat flour in a health food store or you can buy it mail order from King Arthur Flour 800-827-6836 If you are going to make rolls use the dough setting. The raisins are very good in the rolls. Using the dough setting on my Hitachi I add them at the 1:18 mark. When the dough is ready roll out into a flat square. Form into balls the size of a large Lemon. Press down and cover I put 12 into a 13x9 pan and the rest in a cake pan. Let rise until doubled (1 hour) then cook 20 minutes at 350 F. Makes about 15 rolls --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n016.8 --------------- From: "Schmitt, Barbara E." Subject: Pumpernickel bread Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:54:39 -0400 Hi, Steve, I have used the pumpernickel recipe from Rose Levy Berenbaum's Bread Bible with great success. It is even better if you throw in a tablespoon or two of non-diastatic malt powder (or just diastatic malt powder that has been sitting around for quite a while!). I discovered this once by switching the measurements for gluten and diastatic malt powder by mistake and continuing with the recipe anyway (I added the additional gluten the recipe called for when I realized the mistake, but there was no way to take out the extra malt powder). Good luck! Barbara --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n016.9 --------------- From: Jim Eberhardt Subject: Re: Windowpane (kneading) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:23:25 -0500 Mike, Thanks for that. It looks like part of the key to good kneading is getting good shearing action thru the dough. I think that may be what I was missing. The video was helpful, I think - I'll find out this weekend :). Thanks, Jim --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n016.10 --------------- From: aqn@panix.com Subject: Re: Windowpane (kneading) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:24:00 -0400 (EDT) Jim Eberhardt wrote: >My question today has to do with the windowpane test to check for >gluten development. In short, I can't seem to get my dough to >"pass", or even come close. I've tried making the French bread >dough in "Breadbaker's Apprentice" and kneaded by hand for over 20 >minutes, and the dough still pulled apart readily. I have Reinhardt's "BA" and used to be concerned with the window pane thing as well. I used to fret that I can never get my dough to look like the photo in the book. I tried various ratios of flour/water/salt, various types/brands of flours, ingredient temperatures, procedures, etc. No dice. My dough simply cannot be stretched _THAT_ thin without breaking. After about five years of working on perfecting my French bread, I've come to the conclusion that, while the book is a _REALLY_ good starting point, observation and experimentation contribute the most to the result. It does not matter what the book says, as long as you are happy with the result, AND_ you can repeat the result, that's all that matters. >Any suggestions as to why the gluten won't develop properly? Is it >kneading technique or perhaps the dough was too moist? Other than the failure to pass the "windowpane test", are there any other symptoms that might indicate lack of gluten development? Does the dough rise? Is it reasonably rugged and can stand up to a little handling without deflating? If there are no other symptoms, then I'd say you're doing fine and just forget about the windowpane test. Andy Nguyen --------------- END bread-bakers.v108.n016 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2008 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved