Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 21:27:33 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v108.n021 -------------- 001 - "Allen Cohn" Subject: RE: internal temperature of bread Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 23:40:22 -0700 Werner wrote: >Mike, the safe answer is 200 deg F for lean breads, 205 deg F for >breads with food in them like brioche, cheese, or potato breads. Werner, That's interesting... You say that lean breads are fully baked at lower temperatures than enriched breads. I always thought it was the reverse... Allen SHB San Francisco --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n021.2 --------------- From: Maggie Glezer Subject: Challah Temperature Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 09:01:53 -0400 To the man worried about underbaked challah: Challah is always baked by time, not "internal temperature", as are all breads. You did not mention the size of your bread. But I know from experience that for a one-pound bread, and that is a big "if", 35 minutes at 350 degrees F should be fine. If your bread was a one pounder, here are some other things to consider: Did you use an oven thermometer? Your oven might run cool. Did you double pan it, so the bottom did not over brown? These are all things that could give you a mistaken result. For a larger bread, add a bit more time, like about five minutes. For a 1 1/2 pound bread, I would increase the time to 40 minutes. For a 2 pound bread, I would go up to 45 minutes, and possibly reduce the temperature by 25 degrees. If breads are over browning, cover them with foil, and maybe reduce the oven temperature, but be sure to give them their full baking time. Determining when a bread is done takes experience. I encourage my students to drop the thermometer. I cannot really figure out when this tool got to be in the home bakers tool box, but I can tell you I hate it. No professional worth their salt would ever poke large holes in his or her bread to see if they are done. Through experience you learn about the time and temperature a bread takes to be fully baked. That means sometimes erring to the too doughy, and sometimes erring to the over baked. But after some time, you can see and feel the results. That is the essence of mastery. I remember asking Professor Calvel this question when I was just starting out. He told me to bake French breads until I thought they were done, and then give them five more minutes! If you are really nervous about the bread, here are a few other possibilities (to make you feel better about giving away your thermometer): Use a wooden skewer instead of steel--only really wet batter sticks to steel, but doughy crumb will stick to a wooden skewer. Poke it in in a very inconspicuous place. Better yet, look at the deep creases between the strands. If they look doughy, and feel mushy when gently pressed, the bread probably needs more oven time. For French style breads, the Calvel rule is excellent, they almost always are under baked by home bakers--give it 5 more minutes. Pick the breads up and check their bottoms, they should be well browned and sound hollow when thumped. Remember to make plenty of mistakes and note the results, it's really all cause and effect. This is the only way to master bread making! Best, Maggie Glezer --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n021.3 --------------- From: RosesCakeBible@aol.com Subject: Re: final temperature Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 10:51:10 EDT "Allen Cohn" wrote: >Bread dough is full of water so it really can't get above the >boiling point of water (212F) unless all the water has been baked >out. (That would be bad. > >So, you're shooting for a temperature above the point that >the starch is cooked (gelatinized) and below the boiling point of water. > >In practice that means that soft breads like brioche are >done around 185-195F and lean breads like a crusty rustic bread are >done around 200-208F. > >PS: I've always wondered if cakes can be checked for doneness the >same way.... I suspect some bakers do. Allen, I totally agree with you though yesterday I couldn't resist trying to 'overbake' the "no knead bread" in an effort to avoid that clamy quality it gets. After it reached 208F I continued to bake it out of the pot for 10 minutes and then with the oven off for 30 minutes. It helped a little though my husband said he never found it too moist (everyone else including me seems to!) As for cake, absolutely I use temperature especially for those cakes with crumbs on top where it's very difficult to test by feel. Most cakes are about the same as bread--minimum 190F maximum 205F but since it depends on the specific cake I've listed the temperature for each in my upcoming book. Now I'll have to check and see if there's a corrolation between lean versus richer though I suspect with cakes I think of it more as airy versus dense which is probably the same thing as richer cakes ARE more dense! And now to make some cakes for Memorial Day breakfast--blueberry pancakes! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v108.n021.4 --------------- From: SShap58626@aol.com Subject: Internal Temperature of Challah Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 20:43:54 EDT When I bake Challah the dough is always fully shaped into a braid, castle or circular crown. The Challah bread is uneven in shape so I bake mine every Friday night with an internal temperature of 185-195F xxxoo Lorri --------------- END bread-bakers.v108.n021 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2008 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved