Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 08:19:47 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v109.n021 -------------- 001 - Rita Yeazel Subject: Summer Baking Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 09:32:18 -0400 Here is an article for baking in a Weber Smokey Mountain Cooker (Smoker, affectionately known as a WSM or Weber Bullet) that might interest you: http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/baking.html Here is the smoker at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B001I8ZTJ0/thevirtualweberb It periodically goes on sale. Rita --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n021.2 --------------- From: Judith Mayberry Subject: Big Green Egg Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 11:01:04 -0700 I've used two Eggs for several years, the Small and the Large. They are very expensive, just so you know. They are incredible for smoking (lid down) or grilling (lid up) meats and vegetables, and many people make appetizers, desserts, fruit, breads, etc. There is an online discussion group where everyone asks questions and gets help from more experienced Eggers, and recipes. I don't have any other grills any more--gave away the gas grill and kettle. They require chunks of charcoal, NOT briquettes. Walmart carries it. The platesetter is a heavy ceramic round three-legged piece under the grill grate for indirect cooking--to mediate the temperature. You can also stand up three bricks and put a round pizza stone on top to do the same thing. The steps necessary to cook with it are effortless (I'm 75). I only use the Large once in a great while now that the family has scattered, like today when I had a family of five for dinner outside. Grilled corn in the husks first in both Eggs, then turned up the heat to 600 or 700F in the Large for ribeye steaks. At that point some of the diehards would have lowered the temp and put a fruit cobbler in to cook while eating dinner. I use the Small for myself, or for two people. To turn it off you just close the air vent and put a ceramic cap on the top hole. Nothing else to do, as it puts itself out and conserves the hardwood charcoal that's left for next time. If the place that sells them will give you a demo, PLEASE make the trip. If nothing else, It will be a fun experience. You probably have to register: http://www.eggheadforum.com/index.php http://www.eggheadforum.com/recipes/ (This guy is the resident genius) http://www.nakedwhiz.com/ceramic.htm The company website: http://www.biggreenegg.com/ Judy Mayberry --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n021.3 --------------- From: donnadm87 Subject: Re: Summer Baking Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 07:26:46 -0400 We bought a NESCO oven and I bake bread in it, in our screened in porch during the summer. Our "summer kitchen" (the screened in porch) is great. The NESCO allows me to make things like lasagna, and other baked dishes. I also use the crock pot and an electric hot plate throughout the summer. It means we don't need air conditioning, as we do not use any electric appliances for food preparation inside the house during the hot weather. Best Wishes, Donna in Ontario --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n021.4 --------------- From: "makrma4" Subject: Tough pizza crust Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 08:28:27 -0500 Regarding tough pizza crust, here is the recipe I use and it gives me a lovely crispy/soft crust: Oven 465F with pizza stone, preheated 1 hour 2 cups warm water (we have very hard water, I think the minerals add flavor) 1 TB salt 1/2 tsp onion powder 4 TB olive oil 5 cups unbleached all purpose flour (I use a local brand, Hudson Cream) Err on the side of more if you're measuring by weight as I use the scoop & sweep method. 1 TB instant yeast (Fleischmann's bread machine) I use a stand mixer and dough hook. Add ingredients in the above order. Let the onion powder rehydrate for a minute or two before adding the rest of the ingredients. Mix until well combined, adding water or flour to make a smooth, marginally sticky dough (you can touch it briefly and it won't stick, but if you leave your finger on it, it will). Mix on low for another 7-8 minutes. Dough will be soft and will stick to the bottom of the mixer bowl. To rise, I use a large plastic canister sprayed with olive oil. Once you put the dough in, spray the top with oil. Cover (I use the canister lid) and let rise for approximately 1 hour. Turn dough out onto a lightly oiled surface and portion as desired. I make 3 approx. 10-14 inch pizzas from this recipe, it all depends on how thick you want the crust. Place dough ball on a floured sheet of parchment and roll/stretch to desired size. Leave a small rim at the edge of the crust. Prick with a fork to remove air bubbles. Top as desired and bake at 465F for about 10-13 minutes, depending on your toppings. I use a pizza peel for transferring. I think a more hydrated dough and lower baking temp might solve the tough crust problem, as you're using your regular bread recipe and you don't normally bake bread at 500F, I'm guessing. Anyway, hope this helps! Best, Yvonne --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n021.5 --------------- From: "Allen Cohn" Subject: RE: tough pizza crust Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 08:00:47 -0700 I think 10 minutes is rather long for a pizza, especially at 500F. At least that's been my experience. Allen SHB San Francisco PS: For pizza I would think that olive oil would be better than lard... PPS: Where's the salt?! 1.5 to 2 teaspoons, probably. PPPS: Join the cult and start measuring your flour by weight! You'll get more consistent results that way. (But don't drink the Koolaid.) --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n021.6 --------------- From: "Werner Gansz" Subject: Tough Pizza Crust Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 11:13:38 -0400 In your recipe, substitute 1 1/2 cups semolina for 1 1/2 cups of the flour. Semolina is a coarser flour and softens the crust. Also substitute olive oil for the lard, I think lard hardens the crust, oil makes it extensible and softer. Also substitute honey or barley malt syrup for the sugar. Fermentation reduces complex starches to increasingly simpler sugars over time. Starting with a refined (simple) sugars is not as effective as starting with a complex sugar. You don't actually need a sweetener but if you want one, a more complex unrefined sugar works better. Did you forget the salt in the recipe or do you not use it? My Pizza Dough (these ingredients are actually from Peter Reinhart's BBA; Sicilian Bread). The recipe is a bit cryptic since you already know how to make pizzas. The Sponge (16 to 20 hours) - make at noon the day before pizza night 5.2 oz all purpose flour 5.2 oz bottled or filtered water A tiny pinch of yeast (1/16 tsp or less in winter, half that in summer) Dissolve the yeast in the water first, even if you use instant yeast. There is so little yeast in the sponge that you want to be sure that it is well distributed. The Dough - the morning of pizza night All the sponge 6 oz semolina 5 oz all purpose flour 2 tsp sea salt or 1 3/4 tsp table salt 5.5 oz bottled water 1 1/2 tsp yeast 2 tsp honey 1 Tb olive oil Mix, let rise using stretch and fold techniques, divide into pizza sizes, place in olive oil-coated baggies and let rest in fridge until bake time. Bake hot and fast! I bake on a stone, with the oven preheated to 515 deg F. (My oven goes to 550. If yours only goes to 500 then preheat to 475). Slide the pizza on the stone and when the rim of the pizza has puffed up (1 to 2 minutes), turn the oven to "broiler" mode and crank the temperature to max. The heated broiler elements and hot oven roof simulate the environment of a wood-fired stone oven. If your oven reaches max temp and turns off before the pizza is done, crack the door open to let some heat escape and keep the broiler on. It also helps pre-roast very moist vegetables like tomatoes to remove most of their water and to partially pre-cook thick, hard vegetables like broccoli or asparagus. I usually roast them also. You can do all this while the oven is pre-heating. The bottom of the pizza crust should be brown and well cooked and the rim should be unevenly dark and light brown (and maybe a few burnt dough-bubbles that will have to be pinched off), and the cheese toppings caramelized. Werner --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n021.7 --------------- From: "Anita Flanigan" Subject: Re: summer baking Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 08:32:38 -0700 Reggie asked: "Do you bake during the summer?? If so ... how do you keep the kitchen from getting so warm?? " For many years we have baked pizza on our gas grill. The grandsons love to "create" their own kind. We line the surface with tiles left over from our 'sun room floor project' and use a thermometer to make sure it's hot enough. The tiles will sometimes crack, but we have used them over and over. If the spaces are not too wide, it won't affect the dough. Last year it was very hot so I tried the same method for baguettes. I usually make the dough the evening before after feeding the sourdough during the day. Then let it rise in the fridge overnight. The loaves come out of the fridge pretty firm and easy to handle. Preheat the grill (all 3 burners in high), A little cornmeal on the peel, and place one at a time on the tiles, leaving space between for the rise. You can even spray them to get a good crisp crust. Then lower the heat to medium. They bake faster than the oven, but then, they are also thinner. I think a whole loaf of sourdough might get too brown on the bottom, so have just made baguettes. Sorry I cannot be more specific, it is cool in California so far this year. Next time I bake, I'll post some temperatures and times. Actually anything on the grill tastes good! There's never a crumb left. Anita Flanigan --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n021.8 --------------- From: debunix Subject: Re: Soft Pretzels Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 09:02:05 -0700 BTW, the real way to get a true pretzel taste is to dip the pretzels in a lye solution; egg washes are nice, but not like the real deal. Food-grade lye is available from online suppliers--I just got a supply and can happily say that it really works. Rose Levy Berenbaum has a recipe in the Bread Bible that describes how to use the lye. You have to be very careful with it because it can burn you just as quick as a strong acid, but if you're comfortable and take care, it will give your pretzels a marvelous finish. --diane in los angeles http://www.well.com/user/debunix/recipes/FoodPages.html --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n021.9 --------------- From: Guy Snape Subject: Re: tough pizza crust Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 17:16:02 +0100 I've been developing my pizza recipe for years, and I'm really pleased with the results now. My dough is quite wet and doesn't have any fat/oil in it, similar to the authentic pizza napoletana dough. The biggest difference you can make to your home made pizza is to cook it at a really high temperature, maybe up to 800F. There are two common ways of doing this: Jeff Varasano's way (just google his name) which is to break the safety lock on your electric oven door so you can open the door during the pyrolitic self clean cycle, or you can use a cast iron pan on the stove top followed by putting the pizza under the broiler, which is what I do. My full recipe and method are at (and a link to the appropriate cast iron pans on amazon). Regards, - guy --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n021.10 --------------- From: Guy Snape Subject: The Bread Baker's Apprentice Challenge Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 17:20:27 +0100 Not sure if this has come up here already, apologies if I'm repeating old news ... 200 of us amateur bakers from around the world have recently started to work our way through Peter Reinhart's book "The Bread Baker's Apprentice", at a rate of 1 recipe each week. You can follow my progress in the challenge at or by searching for #bba on twitter or there's an appropriately titled group on facebook. Any other bread-bakers list readers doing this? Regards, - guy --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n021.11 --------------- From: "Gwen Brass" Subject: Summer Baking on the Big Green Egg Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 09:20:43 -0700 Hi, I have a Big Green Egg. Actually, I have two! They are wonderful for baking. Anything you can do in the oven, you can do on an egg. And more. You cannot broil, but that's about it. I've made the No Knead Bread on the Egg and also Chocolate Chip Cookies. I've made French Toast as well. It makes an excellent MeatLoaf. The Egg has a thermometer and cooks with lump charcoal, which you reuse, unlike briquets which get thrown away at the end of the cook. So a bag of lump will last you quite a while. I would say a bag would last an average of 15 cooking hours if you were cooking at an average temp of 400 degrees. Since a lot of what you do on the Egg is done at a considerably lesser temp, the lump would typically last even longer. The platesetter is an accessory item that is like a pizza stone with legs. You use it to cook over indirect heat vs direct heat. You can use it with the legs up or down. For the recipe you referenced, most likely it was used with the legs up and then the baking stone set on top of the legs. I'm not sure where you live but there are 'Eggfests' all around the country throughout the year where people come and cook on Eggs, and, for a small fee, the rest of us can wander and sample the food as much as you like. At the end of the day, the Eggs that were used for cooking are sold at a hefty discount. Many people acquire their Eggs this way. (You have to prearrange that you want to purchase an Egg at the end of the day with the Eggfest organizers. There is an excellent forum on the Big Green Egg website, www.eggheadforum.com. You can ask anything you like and get an almost-immediate reply from very friendly and knowledgable people. Egg owners are among the most friendly people I have ever met. The Eggfests are really fun and a fabulous way to see what the Eggs are capable of. Eggs are expensive (the large runs about $900) but they last forever. Your great great grandchildren will be cooking on it and beyond. Feel free to ask me any specific questions you like. Gwen (Dimple's Mom on the Egghead forum) --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n021.12 --------------- From: "Steve Gomes" Subject: Re: Tough Pizza Crust Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 14:40:19 -0600 [Editor's note: this is Steve's reply to Werner's post above.] Thanks. I was just over cooking it. I will have to try these substitutes. and yes I did forget the salt. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n021.13 --------------- From: Scott Stager Subject: Summer Baking Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 09:17:29 -0500 I have been reading the bread-bakers list for years, but have never posted. This questions below from Reggie has enticed me to post because I do outdoor bread baking as part of 19th century living history reenactments. Hope I have posted this properly. I have been involved with Civil War reenactments for a number of years (U.S. internal conflict of the mid 19th century). I started being an assistant cook (cast iron cooking over open wood fires). Our chief cook was so good and highly productive that I had to find a side line to keep me busy. At his prompting I started making bread products. Subsequent to that I have done other similar events with more emphasis on the baking rather than the cooking. We mostly use turn of the 20th century tin ovens originally designed to sit on top of kerosene or early gas stoves. Yes, they are not period to mid 19th century, but only we know :0) They were designed for heat to come up from the bottom from a gas burner. We mount them on a stack of bricks with a small wood fire underneath. These ovens are double walled, with the heat rising within, then entering holes near the top and circulating back down between the walls to exit near the outside bottom. There is a partial plate across the bottom to keep the direct radiant energy from the heat source from overheating the bottom of the bread pan. I have not yet tried cooking with a stone or ceramic tiles, but do intend to try that some day once I locate appropriate tiles. I have also done this in large dutch ovens which would be more period correct. I use basic bread recipes, usually 6+ cups of flour which creates two loaves. I usually augment them with a bit of sweetener, oil/egg, and milk (sometimes use dry milk powder). I use somewhat old (or at least old looking) metal baking pans, but have also used old ceramic pans. The major problem with this cooking is creating and maintaining proper and consistent heat within the oven. I have "cheated" and a modern BBQ thermometer through a small hole in the back to help judge internal oven temperature. The fire is built either with good hardwood chunks which will burn down to a nice glowing small fire which provides more heat than flame. I have also used charcoal, but the 100% charcoal chunk kind, not the ubiquitous brickettes. Sometimes the bread cooks too slow, sometimes too fast, sometimes too hot, sometimes too cool. Sometimes the outer crust gets a bit over baked (read burnt), and sometimes the outside looks fantastic but the inside is a bit undercooked (sometimes gooey). But rarely is a loaf so bad that it is tossed. The kids really like it and my biggest problem is convincing everyone that bread needs to rest after baking and cool before it is cut. They all like bread hot out of the oven. I sometimes have to put a body guard near it to prevent premature cutting :0). I do cheat further and use a modern instant read thermometer to check doneness. I keep that discretely hid under my apron when not in use. I have not, but do intend to try doing the same thing in my home BBQ grills. I have a very old cast aluminum one which I use regularly. It would easily hold a loaf or two off to the side of the charcoal fire. I would use either briquets of 100% charcoal chunks. These grills are much easier to maintain temperature than the ovens over fire. I also have a large side firepot wood fired BBQ grill, big enough to roast about a 1/4 hog. I suspect I could get 6-8 loaves in there side by side and would only have to rotate the loaves to/from the firepot side to even out the cooking. This works folks, and if you are into the fun of doing this kind of stuff you could achieve quite satisfactory results. I have a friend locally who has one of those large brick wood fired ovens that weighs tons, but those things require at least a 24 hour committment, and are only worth it if you are prepared to do a couple of dozen loaves at one time. My method is much quicker and much more portable. At a reenactment earlier this spring I cooked a true sourdough loaf with no added commercial yeast. Put it in a ceramic pan I found at an antique mall for $3 and put that in a large 12" dutch oven (the tall version). I didn't put enough heat under the oven, incorrectly focusing on the top, so the loaf was not properly cooked on the bottom and wouldn't even release properly from the pan, but the top sure looked nice and golden brown and the top half was quite edible. I learned from that and the next time it will be much better. I really enjoy reading this list each week and hope that my comments will encourage some of you to try outdoor bread baking on the cheap. Cheers -- Scott Scott Stager Columbia Missouri --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n021.14 --------------- From: "Mary Fisher" Subject: Re: Do you bake during the summer?? Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 20:11:43 +0100 Of course! We need bread during the summer as well as at other times :-) >If so ... how do you keep the kitchen from getting so warm?? Leave the door open - and stay out of the kitchen. Or bake in the bread oven in the back garden. Or bake in the barbecue by lighting one side and putting the tins on the shelf at the other end of the barbecue. Or put a very thick iron skillet over a low charcoal fire in a cast iron or ceramic firepot, put the dough on the skillet and cover it with a metal basin. Only the first two methods will cook a sensible batch of dough, I don't think it's worth baking just one loaf at a time - unless we're camping and have run out. Mary --------------- END bread-bakers.v109.n021 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2009 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved