Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 09:36:01 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v109.n030 -------------- 001 - Guy Snape Subject: Re: about yeast Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 10:20:06 +0100 >From: Cindy Smith >Subject: about yeast >Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 12:09:58 -0400 >What I'm curious about is how people obtained yeast before the >modern era when you can buy yeast in packages at the grocery store. >Pretend I'm Amish and am not allowed to buy commercial yeast at the >grocery store: How do I get yeast to make bread? Hi Cindy, Yeast grows naturally on grains, just like it does on grape skins - commercial wine makers don't have to add yeast to their pressed grape juice to ferment the wine, it's there already. Back in antiquity, people found that if dough was left a while before being baked, it sometimes became filled with bubbles, so their unleavened bread became leavened. This kind of "wild yeast" bread is usually called sourdough today, as the natural yeast culture is often accompanied by a (harmless) bacterial culture that makes lactic acid, giving the bread a characteristic sour flavour. You can start your own sourdough culture very easily - take a tablespoon of wholegrain flour (rye flour works best but wheat will do) and mix thoroughly with a tablespoon of cooled boiled water (boiling gets rid of any chlorine). Leave it for 12 hours in a covered bowl in your kitchen. After 12 hours, add another tablespoon each of the flour and water and mix thoroughly - the natural yeast likes lots of air. Now, every 8-12 hours, feed the culture by doubling the quantities of flour and water (so you add 2 tbsp, then 4, then 8, etc.) and mixing well to incorporate air. After a couple of days, it should smell interesting and have lots of bubbles in it. There's a full description of the process, and instructions for making bread from your culture at my site Regards, - guy --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n030.2 --------------- From: marina Subject: Re: about yeast Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:41:10 +0200 t is quite simple really, as all it takes is some organic (sugary) matter to start "going bad" and fermenting. The simplest dough starters are made from flour and milk or some other liquid. I think beer is often used because it gets the fermentation process going quicker, and for the same reason, some starters use a boiled potato in place of flour. I would think there are a number of "from scratch" bread starter recipes in this list's archives for you to try out. And yes, I'd love to share mine... if it wasn't packed away in storage, together with the rest of my bread making equipment :-( Ciao :-) marina Marina Tadiello Perledo, Italy The ultimate guide to making natural soap --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n030.3 --------------- From: fred smith Subject: Re: rye bread Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 06:56:23 -0400 Steve: You should be able to find some good ones in the list archives. Several years ago someone posted one called "Jewish Corn Bread"--don't worry, it has nothing to do with what we call corn (maize). it's a wonderful pungent sour-ish rye. Unfortunately, this one DOES use a starter. But it's worth the hassle. I've never been able to get a really good loaf of rye without using the starter. I've used the "rye flavor enhancers" from King Arthur, and while that's better than not using them, it's still not quite the delicious loaf I'd been trying to achieve. I've posted slight variants of it 2 or 3 times, too. Let me know, off-list, if you can't find it and I can mail you a copy of it. Fred Smith -- fredex@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Philippians 4:13 --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n030.4 --------------- From: "SS main" Subject: Where does yeast come from? Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 06:11:25 -0500 Not sure how to reply to this digest, but here is how you get yeast without buying it at the store. I'm new to this but here goes. The "starters" they speak of are generated by taking flours and water and sometimes other stuff and mixing them together, exposing them to the air, which in turn collects bacteria. After a week or so of this process, a starter is formed. The "starter" is named that because it works like yeast. It is comprised of "wild yeast" collected on the surface of the flour/water mixture. It takes a while to breed the cultures to the point where you can use it, but that is technically the "yeast" people used prior to buying the packaged yeast available today. I had always thought that sourdough was a "sour dough" type of bread. Consequently - sour dough starter was going to produce a sour dough. Not the case apparently. but I'm still learning. I have never made a starter before, but I'm currently in the process of making one. I"m on my 3rd day and already I'm seeing signs of it working. It's starting to bubble which is a good thing. This is what I've learned so far......................... Different bacteria are in different parts of the world so starters impart different flavors. Even though you can purchase a starter from another part of the country - once you begin "feeding" it, it can/will ultimately take on the properties of the bacteria in your part of the country. Apparently that is why they tell you to save some of your original starter (providing you like it) and if your "fed" starter changes to the point where you don't like it - you can bring out the original and use that until it also starts to change. I guess that doesn't always happen, but can happen. I ordered some starter from an organization called "The Oregon Trail". It's free. You send them a stamp self addressed envelope and they send you some starter. You could google it to get the address. Another wonderful site for information is the one I"ve been on SOOO many times lately. The Fresh Loaf. They can answer just about anything you ask. Lots of photos and lots of recipes. TONS of information. There is alot to learn, but it's interesting. hope some of my limited info helps. -Susie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n030.5 --------------- From: "Werner Gansz" Subject: Re: About Yeast Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 07:47:27 -0400 Cindy, Natural yeast is everywhere, floating in the air, on the skins of fruits (like grapes), on the grains we use to bake with, wheat and rye, etc. Baking bread with natural yeast starts with a process to encourage the natural yeast still in the flour after milling to grow and concentrate. A few months ago I posted a note here about starting a sourdough bread from rye flour, then using the rye starter to bake a both a sourdough rye and sourdough white bread. Rye is one of the easiest flours to build a starter with. If you want to do an experiment, get a bag of rye flour, preferably stone ground (stone grinding is cooler than metal blade grinding so more of the natural yeast survives the milling process). Temperature is important and some types of impurities in the water (like chlorine) can kill natural yeast. Take one cup of rye flour and mix it with 3/4 cup of bottled water, cover and let stand at 80 deg F. for 24 hours. This early starter should be "airy" with bubbles and may smell a bit punky but it will improve. Dilute the mixture with 1/2 cup bottled water, then add another cup of rye flour, cover and let stand for 24 hours at 80 deg F. Throw away 1/2 of the mixture, dilute the remaining mixture with 1/2 cup bottle water and add another cup of rye flour. Let stand for 24 hours at 80 deg F. Again, throw away 1/2 of the mixture, dilute the remaining mixture with 1/2 cup bottle water and add another cup of rye flour. Let stand for 24 hours at 80 deg F. By now the starter should be more than doubling in volume and should smell sweet and yeasty. You can use this starter to bake bread without commercial yeast. Natural yeast take more time to rise than commercial yeast so each bread making stage takes longer. There are many procedures for preserving the starter and literally hundreds of recipes for baking bread from starters on the web and here in the archives. When you bake bread from natural yeast you are following an ancient process. Have fun, Werner --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n030.6 --------------- From: poacher2@aol.com Subject: Re: rye bread Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:54:11 -0400 This is the recipe I use for Rye bread. I make the sponge the day before Recipe Name: RYE BREAD Category: BREAD Serves: 2 SOURCE CRUST & CRUMB Sponge 1 Cup Rye flour 1 Cup Bread flour 1 Tsp. Dry yeast 1 Cup Water Dough 2 Cup Bread flour 1 Tblsp Brown sugar 1 1/4 Tsp. Salt 1/2 Tsp. Dry yeast 1 Tblsp Caraway seeds 1 Tsp. Color (kitchen bouquet, adjust to suit) 1/4 Cup Buttermilk Sponge Mix all the ingredients, refrigerate overnight. Dough Bring the sponge out a hour before use and allow to come to room temp. Straight dough method. Single knock back Pan bake at 350 F Freeform at 425 F --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n030.7 --------------- From: "Allen Cohn" Subject: Re: rye bread Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 07:11:06 -0700 Sorry, Steve, you're out of luck. Here's why: the starch in rye flour sets up its structure between 122 & 140F. But rye flour is relatively high in amylase enzymes. These enzymes don't deactivate till 176F. So they erode the internal structure after it is set up (the effect is called "starch attack"; see p. 47 of "Bread" by Hamelman). The most common solution is to make the dough more acidic, i.e., use sourdough starter. The acidic environment inhibits the enzymes. The other solution is to keep the amount of rye flour used very low, say only 10 or perhaps 20% of the total. On the other hand, you may discover that maintaining a sourdough starter is far easier than you had imagined. Allen SHB San Francisco --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n030.8 --------------- From: "Allen Cohn" Subject: RE: about yeast Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 07:16:01 -0700 Hi Cindy, What did people do before they could buy yeast in stores? Luckily for us, yeast is everywhere, including on the outer surfaces of wheat kernels. So, just grind up wheat, add water, wait, and *something* starts to happen. If one is a bit diligent one can turn this "accident" into a controlled effect, i.e., creating a sourdough culture starter. That's still how we start them today: just add water to flour. Furthermore, historically beer making and bread making existed in a symbiotic relationship. Bread makers would use a byproduct of brewing rich in yeast as an additive to dough. I'm pretty sure this sharing went all the way back to Egyptian times, if not earlier. Can somebody more knowledgeable else chime in here? Allen SHB San Francisco --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n030.9 --------------- From: debunix Subject: Re: yeast source Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 07:43:09 -0700 Wild yeast starters (aka sourdough) were of course first. And in between the wild yeast and the modern packaged stuff, they could get somewhat tamed yeast as a byproduct of brewing beer, from the brewers. diane in los angeles http://www.well.com/user/debunix/recipes/FoodPages.html --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n030.10 --------------- From: chasebusiness@sbcglobal.net Subject: airborn yeast Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 07:43:17 -0700 (PDT) I understood that there are lots of airborn yeast that if you put out a starter on the counter open it will settle in it and start 'doin' it's thang'. You can start a sourdough that way. Have I done it? Nope and I don't guarantee my info is accurate, but what I was told along the way. Linda Blessya' bunches from Linda chasebusiness@sbcglobal.net http://justastitchintime.blogspot.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n030.11 --------------- From: "lhyson@mindspring.com" Subject: rye bread without starter Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:51:32 -0400 Check out "Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes a Day" lhyson@mindspring.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n030.12 --------------- From: Nancy Rowe Subject: gluten free bread recipes? Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 10:38:05 -1000 I am looking for bread machine recipes for gluten-free bread. I have tried a few that were only marginally edible. So far all were very heavy and "wet". --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n030.13 --------------- From: Mike Avery Subject: Re: yeast Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:55:33 -0500 In the days before commercial yeast, the most common riser was sourdough. You can start your own sourdough starter the way the first bakers did. Mix flour and water and let nature take its course. As an aside, the concentration of yeast on the flour is much higher than in the air, so despite the romance starters are more often started from the yeast and bacteria on the flour than from the air. Historically, cultures were carefully maintained since the people didn't know entirely what the mechanism behind creating a starter was. Better to save it than have to start over. The next most common source of yeast was fermenting beer. This is called barm. Barm is NOT a sourdough process. Barm is the anti-sourdough. If you get sourdough bacteria in your beer, you won't like the beer much. Early brewers learned that if you took some of the last batch of beer and poured it into the current batch, it would start fermenting faster. Over time, there was a selection for the yeasts that worked. In general, if you start a flour water culture, and if you maintain it and keep feeding it and using it, it will turn into a sourdough culture sooner or later. Usually sooner. For more details, you might check out my web page Mike *Bake With Mike * Mike Avery A Randomly Selected Bread Saying Of The Day: "I understand the big food companies are developing a tearless onion. I think they can do it--after all, they've already given us tasteless bread." -Robert Orben --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v109.n030.14 --------------- From: Haack Carolyn Subject: rye bread "cheats" for Steve Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 05:18:19 -0700 (PDT) Steve, in all good humor -- you're curing your own meat and yet decline to let a starter sit out overnight? Maybe we can make a deal! :) Seriously, good rye takes either time or money. Here are two "cheats" which will help you get a good-tasting rye in no time, for just a little "dough." Both are from King Arthur for sure, though somebody else may also offer them at retail. (a) "first clear flour" -- this is a high-ash product, they tell me, but it really does make a difference in the bread. Use it in lieu of AP or bread flour, along with the rye flour needed in your recipe (b) rye flavoring powders (they have several) which add the "sour" to your loaf to make it tangy. These are POWERFUL -- be careful in opening the little plastic tub, you don't want to get a snootful, believe me. --------------- END bread-bakers.v109.n030 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2009 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved