Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 04:02:25 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v111.n017 -------------- 001 - Sue Hermosillo - Jon's Sourdough Request 006 - "Anita Flanigan" Subject: Mixer recomendations? Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 16:16:12 -0700 (PDT) Hi everyone, I know I've read on this list in recent years that for bakers, the Kitchen Aid isn't very highly thought of (I have an old one from when they were Hobart made, but that was then). My younger daughter is a student at Le Cordon Bleu and is looking for a heavy duty stand mixer that will work well for breads as well as general purposes. She's willing to spend as much as it takes, but she wants a functional, reliable (for home) machine. She really likes the multi-function attachments for the KA (like meat grinder, sausage maker, etc.) but I don't want to see her end up with a big, expensive mixer-shaped sausage maker. So what are everyone's thoughts on brand and models of stand mixers for home bakers now? I thank you all in advance for your input. Namaste Sue --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v111.n017.2 --------------- From: Mike Avery Subject: Re: Sourdough starter Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 07:25:07 -0500 "Jon M. Stevenson" asked: >So I am confused. > >1. I have a sourdough starter working. And it keeps having that >brown-gray liquid raising to the top. > >Now according to Mike Avery on his site, he says to pour off this >liquid and do not stir it back into the starter. > >He also refers to a site for Oregon Trail Sourdough. On that site it >says to stir the liquid back in. I say that if it is a thin layer to stir it back in, but if it is a thick layer that you should pour it off. I also say that the liquid, commonly called hooch, is evidence that a sourdough starter hasn't been fed enough, or often enough. >2. My starter is quite liquid in nature. When I first made it, it >bubbled on the first day and has never bubbled since. > >Mike Avery site says the starter should be thick. If it hasn't bubbled, I have to question if it is alive. Bubbling, converting sugars into carbon dioxide and alcohol, is proof that your starter is alive. Lack of this activity isn't proof that it is dead, but it is a matter for concern. I also comment that some people like their starters thicker and some like them thinner than I suggest on my site. I also comment that my recommendation is intended for use by a beginner. Thicker starters are difficult for beginners to work with, thinner starters tend to work too fast and have too little tolerance. Skip a feeding or two with a thinner starter, and your starter is in real trouble. The compromise starter I suggest also has a tell that lets you know it's healthy. It's thick enough to rise between feedings. If it can at least rise to double its height between feedings, it is ready for use. Thinner starters don't have the structural strength to do that. >So can anyone give me info on the best way to handle my starter? No. People have been using sourdough for something between 6,500 and 10,000 years. There are as many ways to use sourdough as there are sourdough bakers. There isn't A way to handle your starter. There are many. And they all have their advantages and disadvantages. My suggestion is find a guru whose advice you are comfortable with and tune out the babble of other voices and use that guru's advice. I am convinced that most people with cookbooks or web sites have a system that works for them. However, if you mix their advice, especially if you don't understand it, you'll only be frustrated. I also suggest being careful whose advice you accept. Newsgroups, mailing lists and social sites are not great sources of information for beginners. You have no way of knowing if the person who responds actually knows more than you do, or if they just write well. Also, I've seen many responses to questions like yours where the response is, "Oh, that can't work!" from someone who hasn't tried it, and who hasn't even read the material you are talking about. So, my suggestion is to find a sourdough guru and follow their advice until you either achieve success or realize it is time to pursue a different path. But don't confuse yourself by overloading yourself with seemingly contradictory material until you can see some of the underlying principles. Good luck, Mike *Bake With Mike * Mike Avery Email to:mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com A Bread Thought For The Day: When Jesus said, "Man does not live by bread alone," that was important because so many people *DID* live by bread alone! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v111.n017.3 --------------- From: Lloyd Davis Subject: RE: Sour Dough Starter Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 14:49:43 -0400 Jon: Recently I have had great success with my sourdough starter: Every Saturday I take 8 oz (by weight), add 4 oz filtered room temp water, mix it in and add 4 oz all purpose flour and mix until no lumps are apparent. I let it sit out on the counter until it looks a little bubbly. I can use some at this point but always put it into the refrigerator until the next feeding. I stir the starter before removing any from the glass container for bread making. All purpose flour seems fine since after a week the starter degrades the protiens into a soup even if I use KA bread flour. I usually use 3 oz of the starter in my 1.5 lb breads and bake 2-3 per week. The starter is 100% hydration making it easy to figure in the ingredients. It never has the brown grey alcohol separation. It always smells like champagne. Hope this helps. Lloyd --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v111.n017.4 --------------- From: Elizabeth Alton Subject: Re: sourdough starter Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 18:21:03 -0400 Hi all, Liz here in Vermont. I follow King Arthur Flour's Sourdough instructions. Go to their website, search "sourdough tips" and you will get a wealth of information including the answers to all your questions as stated here. Good baking! Liz --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v111.n017.5 --------------- From: Cheryl Subject: Jon's Sourdough Request Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 06:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Jon S. was having trouble with sourdough starter. I have tried... countless times... to start a starter, with no luck at all. But, I found this site and followed the directions and have a 5 day old starter bubbling away in my kitchen, as we speak! I did use Rye flour and bottled water, because I figured that with all my failed attempts, this would be my best bet. I hope this helps. I am, by no means, an expert. Like I said, my starter is only 5 days old. But, it's thick and bubbly! http://www.sourdoughhome.com/startermywaywpics.html --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v111.n017.6 --------------- From: "Anita Flanigan" Subject: re:sourdough starter Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 13:52:19 -0700 Jon: I think that most recipes are that way. Someone gives you a recipe and you change one ingredient or a direction because you don't like it; you pass it on to a friend that does the same thing and when it has gone 'round the circle, it is completely different. Can you imagine the old Sourdough Jack's carrying liquid starter in their food pack? It was probably a lump, almost as hard as their rolls probably turned out. But tasty no doubt. My experience with sourdough is to USE it, feed it at least twice a week, always feed it when you put it back into the fridge, but if you feed it at night and leave it on the counter, you might not know that it did in fact rise and bubble overnight and then collapse. Mine is pretty firm, it is easier to handle that way for me, personal preference.=20 I keep a whole wheat starter (course ground white winter wheat flour) and an unbleached, hi protein starter and treat them both the same way. The whole wheat flour will get some dark areas on top if I forget to feed it during the week, the white does not; if it were more liquid, the black stuff would be the "hooch" you are getting. If I remember to feed them during the week, they will both be livelier than if not. I bake usually once a week, and take my starter out of the fridge early in the morning, feed it about three times during the day (or twice if I get involved elsewhere) AND (take about 1-2 T starter before you add anything else, feed it and put into a clean container in the fridge for next time you make bread; mix and make up my dough that night, rise the breads in the fridge in the summer; in my cold pantry the rest of the year, overnight, and the next morning bake it off. I use only flour and bottled water in the starter, made according to Laurel's Bread Book recipe about 10 years ago ( the recipe for desem) and it has never failed, yet. I have dried a bit and put into cold storage, also have a bit of starter in the freezer but have not had to use them. Easy, effortless, becomes second nature and the bread is so very good. Hope that this helps. Anita --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v111.n017.7 --------------- From: Reggie Dwork Subject: Belles Hamburger Buns Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 14:55:07 -0700 * Exported from MasterCook * (Bread), Belles Hamburger Buns Recipe By : Serving Size : 12 Preparation Time :2:00 Categories : Bread-Bakers Mailing List Breads/Muffins/Rolls Low Fat Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 cup milk 1 cup water 2 tablespoons butter 1 tablespoon granulated sugar 1 1/2 teaspoons salt 5 1/2 cups all-purpose flour 2 1/4 teaspoons active dry yeast -- or 1 envelope 1 egg yolk 1 tablespoon water Combine the milk, 1 cup of water, butter, sugar and salt in a saucepan. Bring to a boil then remove from the heat and let stand until lukewarm. If the mixture is too hot, it will kill the yeast. In a large bowl, stir together the flour and yeast. Pour in wet ingredients and stir until the dough starts to pull together. If you have a stand mixer, use the dough hook to mix for about 8 minutes. If not, knead the dough on a floured surface for about 10 minutes. Place the dough in a greased bowl, turning to coat. Cover and let stand until doubled in size, about 1 hour. Punch down the dough and divide into 12 portions They should be a little larger than a golf ball. Make tight balls out of the dough by pulling the dough tightly around and pinching it at the bottom. Place on a baking sheet lined with parchment paper or aluminum foil. After the rolls sit for a minute and relax, flatten each ball with the palm of your hand until it is 3 to 4" wide. You may want to oil your hand first. Set rolls aside until they double in size, about 20 minutes. Preheat the oven to 400F (200C). Mix together the egg yolk and 1 tablespoon of water in a cup or small bowl. Brush onto the tops of the rolls. Position 2 oven racks so they are not too close to the top or bottom of the oven. Bake for 10 minutes in the preheated oven. Remove the rolls from the oven and return them to different shelves so each one spends a little time on the top. Continue to bake for another 5 to 10 minutes, or until nicely browned on the top and bottom. Amount Per Serving Calories: 246 | Total Fat: 3.3g | Cholesterol: 24mg Yield 12 buns Source: "allrecipes.com" Start to Finish Time: "2:20" - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 249 Calories; 4g Fat (13.3% calories from fat); 7g Protein; 46g Carbohydrate; 2g Dietary Fiber; 26mg Cholesterol; 299mg Sodium. Exchanges: 3 Grain(Starch); 0 Lean Meat; 0 Non-Fat Milk; 1/2 Fat; 0 Other Carbohydrates. --------------- END bread-bakers.v111.n017 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2011 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved