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Fwd: Digest bread-bakers.v098.n056

Vernon Webster <vernon@the-spa.demon.co.uk>
Mon, 10 Aug 98 22:08:17 +0000
v098.n058.1
Hello to all kneedy people,
     After not having said anything for a while (In fact I haven't said
anything much at all) this last digest has brought me out of hiding. 


>From: Buese <buese@gvi.net>

>I'd like a machine recipe for wheat bread that won't crumble when you make a
>sandwich with it.  The one I have works okay the first day, but then it's
>oy but that nly good for croutons!

     First point. I don't use a bread machine (see later controvercial
reply) so you will have to adapt if you think any ideas are worth a try.
     To me, much of achieving a loaf that is satisfactory to ones self is
very much a matter of trial, error and adjusting every conceivable variable
(aided by other people's, including those on this list, experiences) until,
hey presto, something seems to click. Why I have said this is that I have
managed to get a non-crumby but moist loaf which I enjoy, but to be honest,
I haven't really a clue how I have come by it.

     The factors which seem relevant and seem to work for me and things I
have picked up from others are:-

1/ I use fresh yeast (which I sometimes use from frozen)
2/ I use cold water where  possible. Slow rising (within limits) seems to
give best and longer lasting results.
3/ I use the 'sponging method' which involves: making well in measured
flour; pouring yeast/water liquid in centre and mixing in enough flour to
make a sloppy mess; leave for a couple of hours until it all bubbles up.
4/ Don't cut out the salt for any health or taste reasons it's meant to
help the texture and add AFTER the sponging as salt is meant to inhibit the
yeast, together with 1,2, or 3 tbsps of oil of choice.
5/ Kneed for a good 10 mins by hand, 6 mins by kitchen machine and I don't
know about bread machines. Don't let dough get too dry, it's better on the
sticky side as long as it holds together well and supports a good shape.
6/ After Kneeding, leave for a good time to rise in a place that isn't too
warm, don't worry about over rising at this stage.
7/ Knock back and leave to rise again for about 20mins.

     It is at this point that I need some advice/confirmation. Most cookery
books have this second rising as 3/4 to 1 hour. I recon that with all this
time spent beforehand that about 25 mins is enough however I often seem to
get an air hole underneath the crust and can't work out whether it is to do
with cooking temperatures or whether, after a long rising process, this
25mins is far too long. Any help appreciated.

8/ I start cooking in a hot oven (about 210 C Fan Oven) with water in a pan
in the bottom. When bread  is in the oven is turned down by about 20 C.
That's about it. 



>From: Rosemary Grimm <bf940@lafn.org>

>Dear Roy,
>
>Call me a curmudgeon, but I can't believe that someone addicted
>to bread making would buy a bread machine. Of course if one has
>a disability and lots of money, that's a different story. And I
>can see someone becoming addicted to breadmaking with a machine
>and moving on. 
>
>Considering how to spend a couple hundred bucks (actually 
>closer to $300) on a bread related appliance, I would opt for a 
>large Kitchen Aid mixer.

     I'm afraid that I totally agree with Rosemary but haven't liked to say
until now. I must state though that I don't think we should try and create
a them and us situation. We all like making bread whether it be naturally,
using a bread machine, a kitchen aid, using sour dough or otherwise and
that is good enough for this list. Other people will come to see the error
of there ways by example :) :) I myself kneed with an electric mixer as I
have cfs/me and find kneeding by hand a little too strenuous - I therefore
cannot be called a purist. I do however like contact with the dough and
feel that this stops it being an instant product such as frozen pizza.



>From: Jean Sutherland <jsuth@internetcds.com>

>I had one problem, though.  I used a baking stone and tried to
>spray water on the walls of my oven with a spritzer but still
>didn't get the dark color I was looking for.  The water seemed to
>evaporate almost on contact and very little steam appeared.  Is
>this the real trick to getting more color in a home oven?
>Without adding any other ingredients to the bread (like sugar or
>eggs, etc) I would like a darker color on the loaves.  Can I get
>any suggestions?

     I would suggest that if you don't want to even glaze with milk that
you experiment with a higher starting temperature and lowering the dial
either immediately or 5 - 15 mins after putting it in. I don't know whether
this effects colour but dampening the loaf directly with water during
cooking at 15 min intervals seems to give for a good crust.


>From: jlee@cccp.net (John Lee)
>Subject: Some questions about flour
>Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:46:01 +0100
>
>
>A supermarket chain here in Britain has finally brought us bread machines at
>sensible prices (69.99 UK pounds, about half price) so I bought one and have
>been making bread like crazy for the past week. However, like most things in
>this country, strong bread flour is expensive - about 79 pence for 1.5 kgs
>against just 12 pence for supermarket's own low price brands of all purpose
>plain white flour. Unfortunately the supermarkets do not sell an equally
>cheap strong bread flour.

     Hello John,
I'm in the UK too and I don't think there's too many of us on this list ?
Unless it is a necessity of circumstance then I would forget about cheap
flour. Why is it so cheap, unless it is a total loss leader? I think that
if you're going to the effort of baking your own bread then it's worth
using the best that you can afford. Many areas have small local mills
producing a individual quality product and experimenting can be fun, as
well as supporting these small businesses. Failing that I find larger
producers such as Doves Farm flours very good. Personally I try different
flours from my local health food shop and am prepared to pay about £1.10
for a 1.5kg bag - but then I haven't spent £69.99 on a bread machine :-)
...........only joking.

     All the best,
          Vernon Webster 



Vernon Webster 
Harrogate
North Yorkshire
England