Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:08:12 -0700 (PDT) -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v098.n059 -------------- 001 - s1088940@uottawa.ca - Master Cook Mystery 002 - "Martin Koechel" Subject: Toasters... Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 07:42:53 -0400 Has anyone out there found a toaster where a slice of bread-machine bread actually fits? Thanks, Martin Koechel in Nashua, NH martin@cadence.com --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n059.3 --------------- From: "Mega-bytes" Subject: Slicing the bread Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 09:18:22 -0400 We have 2 meat slicers and I never thought of using them to slice bread. I'm going to have to get one out and try it. Thanks to everyone for the tip. Martha --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n059.4 --------------- From: "tess@shore.intercom.net" Subject: Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Another Ensaimada recipe to add to Nini's contribution. You will love these sooo much, you will want to try all the versions. I wrap these individually and freeze. Also, a TNT batter bread..easy and wonderful. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n059.5 --------------- From: "l.farrar" Subject: 69 Minute 2lb. Super Rapid Bread Machine by Regal Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:11:32 -0600 Does anyone have any information about the 69 Minute 2lb. Super Rapid Bread Machine by Regal. I am thinking of purchasing it. --Linda *************************** Start a home-based business with an INC.500 company that is guaranteed risk-free!! l.farrar@ix.netcom.com *************************** --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n059.6 --------------- From: Terri Sonleitner-Law Subject: Request: Beer Bread (like SaltGrass Steakhouse) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:38:23 -0500 Hi BreadBakers... I had the most wonderful beer bread (Shiner Bock Beer Bread) at the SaltGrass SteakHouse in the Dallas area (Grapevine, TX) recently. Does anyone have this recipe, or a similar one (preferably for the abm, I have an 'ancient' first generation 1# Welbilt, but I think I can adapt)? The bread was dark, dense and so yummy! Thanks for any help! Cheers! Terri in Flower Mound, TX --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n059.7 --------------- From: Amy Westwood Subject: Toastmaster Bread Maker & Cook's Oven Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:21:34 -0400 Does anyone know anything about this machine? It looks too good to be true: makes a horizontal 2 lb loaf; has a keep warm feature and 13 hr delay timer, add ingredient signal, 12 fully automatic cycles for breads, whole wheat, cake, and dough; and it's also a toaster, oven, and broiler. I can't imagine one machine being able to do all of that and do it well! Any and all input will be greatly appreciated... Thanks - Amy --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n059.8 --------------- From: bevmed@ingress.com Subject: Re: Digest bread-bakers.v098.n058 Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:59:45 -0400 i finally have to unlurk and answer the detractors of bread machine making. i live in a small apartment in new york city. i have absolutely NO counter space in the kitchen. there is no place to knead dough unless i want to do it on the dining table....NOT! if i want home made bread i NEED to use a bread machine because it sits on top of my microwave and therefore doesnt take up any space since the microwave has it's own stand in a small niche in the kitchen. also, some people don't like to knead dough or work with pie crust. i know i dont handle pie crust well, though i did make bread by hand when i had a "real" kitchen in Los Angeles. so please don't get "uppity" with people who enjoy using the latest gadgets. it might turn out the have a reason to do so outside of laziness. phew....glad to get that off my chest :-) Beverly --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n059.9 --------------- From: Natalie Frankel Subject: Re:Bread Machines Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:14:58 -0500 I am interested in knowing if anyone has had success with a bread machine that makes a horizontal loaf. I haven't heard postiive things about them. I assume it would HAVE to have two paddles, otherwise it doesn't seem that it would mix and knead properly. So, would respondents to the message below post their responses to the list or include me in your responses. Thank you! Natalie in Milwaukee natalie.frankel@mixcom.com > >From: Marcia Fasy >Subject: Bread Maker Recommendations >Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:24:04 -0700 (PDT) > >My daughter has worn her bread machine out and needs to purchase a >replacement. She would like a mid price range machine, a horizontal >loaf would be nice, but not necessary. I have had a Hitachi for years >but they no longer make bread machines so I am looking for the best >machine for the money to recommend to her. > >You can reply either to the list or directly to me. > >Thanks, Marcia > --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n059.10 --------------- From: "Bochner, Arnold" Subject: Re: Slices Perfect Kitchen Slicing System Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:53:01 -0400 >From: "C J Channing" >This is absolutely the BEST thing I have found for slicing bread-even warm. >I did a paste for the info from qvc.com. I have tried the other >slicers/knives and nothing comes close to this. PS I do not work for QVC. >Slices Perfect Kitchen Slicing System Sorry to say that my spouse bought me one of these and I discarded it after a few times use. The problem is that there is no upper guide to place the knife against and the knife blade can (and did for me) climb off the lower guide (especially in the side you can't see) and create uneven slices. On the plus side, the knife is very good for cutting any bread, so I use it alone and trust my luck with the thickness of the slices. I find it more convenient (and do a more even job) to slice the whole loaf after first scoring where each slice is supposed to start. BTW, how you account for the slices which have the ABM blade hole? I use those for breakfast toast and the others for sandwiches. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n059.11 --------------- From: "Mitch Smith" Subject: : More bread experiements Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 22:35:35 -0500 <> Don't get too concerned about this. There is a problem is using raw milk in bread products. The active enzymes in the raw milk can affect the structure of the bread and it can become quite gummy. However, when milk is heated, these enzymes are deactivated and cease to cause problems. This is why many (especially older) recipes call for you to "scald" milk before using. Generally, pasteurized milk has been sufficiently heated to eliminate the problem. In 20 years of baking, I can remember only once, about 10 or 12 years ago, when I had this problem with pasteurized milk. Raw milk is not commonly sold in most stores. A problem with a well- known California dairy making a bunch of children some years back has relegated raw milk to a hearty bunch of dedicated souls who are willing to hunt it down. Such milk can be used in baking if the scalding instructions are followed. Given that powdered milk is made via heated deydration, I can't imagine that you should have any problem with it in breadmaking. - Mitch --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n059.12 --------------- From: "Ken and Mary Ann Vaugnan" Subject: Techniques Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 12:07:32 -0800 I feel the need to de-lurk for a few comments -- I have inherited the bread making from my DW over the years. I have a Kitchen Aid and a bread machine and do some breads by hand. I use all three processes. There are advantages and disadvantages to each one. I am also a scoutmaster and teach boys how to make breads (especially flat breads and steamed breads) on camping trips where there are no mechanical assists. We eat good pizza, fry bread etc on the trail. There is something special about kneading bread on the bottom of a canoe and cooking it in oil over a campfire. The flavor of yeast bread roasted on a stick over a fire is special. The point is that all the different techniques have a place depending on the product desired, the conditions, and the time and other resources available. I think it is important to recognize bread as the result of an artisan process that can be more or less based on process formulas as the need requires. As I tell the Boy Scouts -- Yeast and flour are quite forgiving, and will give an acceptable result under a number of different conditions -- not always the same but good (especially in the Yukon). As forgiving as yeast and flour can be, perhaps we need to be as tolerant to differences in how we get to the end result and how other do likewise. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n059.13 --------------- From: "AcaGordie" Subject: Bread Machines Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 08:33:39 -0600 I remember reading someplace that in Japan Farmers wives get up early in the morning to make fresh breads for their husbands, every day. Some company made the first bread machine thinking the farmers wives would all buy one so they wouldn't have to work so hard. Well it didn't turn out that way. The farmers wives liked making their bread by hand. It was the hurried mothers, the working wives, the man who likes to bake but doesn't want to spend 4 hours in the kitchen who scarfed up the ABM's. I have never made a loaf of bread by hand in my life. I have no plans to. I love my ABM. Probably about half the bread I make now, I just use the ABM to make the dough and then I take it out and make fancy loafs or Cinnamon rolls or Pizza or something. I was gonna say something about how expensive the Kitchen Aid mixers are then I realized that my last ABM cost more then the mixer. I can't see paying $300 for a big mixer but for a bread machine, no problem. To each his own. Now a question. I like Fresh Cinnamon Rolls for breakfast. But I hate getting up at 5 to start the machine. (I use fresh eggs and milk) Has anyone found a way to make the dough the day before and put it in the fridge or something so you can take it out at a decent hour and bake them. I suppose I should experiment but I am lazy... Remember I like ABM's. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n059.14 --------------- From: Karen Wheless Subject: Bread Baking and Humidity Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:01:27 -0400 I've been having a lot of trouble lately with my bread, which I think has been caused by humidity. Yesterday I started a loaf in my bread machine, and the dough appeared to be fine after the initial kneading. It felt firm and not at all sticky, and formed a nice dough ball. However, after the second kneading cycle and part of the second rise (about 2 hours later) I checked on the dough and it had completely changed. It was more like a batter, very sticky and like a thick liquid. I started kneading, and had to add nearly a cup of flour to get back to the proper consistency. And even then, the dough barely rose at all, I tried baking it in the oven but it came out heavy and dense. Even though it's summer, and was fairly humid yesterday, it wasn't outstandingly hot and humid. (I don't have air conditioning, I think it was about 85 degrees F, which is about average for the summer.) I can't believe that my dough, in a closed bread machine, would absorb that much moisture from the air, but I can't figure out any other reason for the problem. Is there a way to counteract the humidity, or special recipes that will work even in the summer? What do people do who live in hot, humid climates, or in areas where it rains frequently? When I lived in the South, I ran my air conditioning in the summer, so it was never a problem, but here in a "cooler" climate it feels hotter! Karen Wheless _________________________________ Karen Wheless kwheless@rockland.net "Every sentence I utter must be understood not as an affirmation, but as a question." Niels Bohr --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n059.15 --------------- From: Patrice Johnson Subject: Bread Advice Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:17:00 -0500 Hello - I need some advice regarding a recipe I threw together. Yesterday I made a rolled bread using pesto as a filling. The bread itself was tasty, but I was disappointed that yet another of my "rolled" breads came out with air pockets between the layers. Any advice on avoiding this separation of bread & filling? A non-exact reincarnation of the recipe follows. My apologies if the format is not correct for this list. Thanks in advance, Patrice Pesto Rolled Bread Recipe By : Patrice M. Johnson Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- ~1 cup warm water -- 110-115 degrees 1 teaspoon salt 1-1/2 tablespoons butter 3-1/4 cups flour 3 tablespoons sugar 1 tablespoon dried milk 1-1/2 teaspoon yeast 2-3 teaspoons dried basil 2-3 teaspoons dried hot pepper flakes (I used Thai) Add all ingredients to bread machine in order suggested by manufacturer. Use mix, rise, self-form method. Roll out prepared dough to form ~8 x 12 inch rectangle. Spread several ounces prepared pesto in center of dough. Tightly roll dough and shape to form loaf. Let rise 1 hour. Brush with beaten egg and top with grated parmesian if desired. Bake 1 hour at 375 F or until done. **************************************************************************** **** Three grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love, and something to hope for. Addison (1672-1719) **************************************************************************** **** --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n059.16 --------------- From: "Mega-bytes" Subject: Rice Flour Bread Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 08:02:15 -0400 ******************* Yvonne wrote: I would like to get a recipe to make it myself. She told me it contained only Rice Flour, Salt, Water and something that started with a 'M' (??) No yeast, wheat or gluten. It looked like it was made from a batter as opposed to a risen dough. It was baked in a loaf pan and was only maybe 3" high. It was very dense and cake-like. This particular bread contained flax seeds, which I could easily add to any recipe. Yvonne ************************ Yvonne, I'm sure this is not the recipe you're looking for but it doesn't contain any yeast, wheat or gluten. I haven't made it, so cannot tell you whether it's good or not. Martha * Exported from MasterCook * Rice Batter Bread II Recipe By : Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 2 c AM Brown Rice Flour 2 tb Non-alum baking powder 1/2 ts Sea salt (optional) 1/4 c Potato starch or other flour 2 Eggs -- beaten (optional) 1 c Water or soymilk 2 tb AM Unrefined Vegetable Oil 3 tb Honey Mix dry ingredients and liquid ingredients separately; then combine both mixtures. Pour into oiled and floured 4" x 8" loaf pan and bake 45-50 minutes at 350 F. Let cool completely in pan. Source: Arrowhead Mills "Recipes for Special Dietary Needs" tri-fold Reprinted by permission of Arrowhead Mills, Inc. Electronic format courtesy of: Karen Mintzias - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n059.17 --------------- From: "Mega-bytes" Subject: Cheese Bread Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 08:39:05 -0400 I make the dough for this bread in my bread machine and usually just shape it into rolls, however, I have done 1/2 rolls and 1/2 into a loaf. This bread has a very good cheesy taste - my husband loves it. Makes wonderful toast also. Enjoy, Martha * Exported from MasterCook * Cheddar Cheese Bread Recipe By : Serving Size : 2 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads/Abm: Cheese Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 package yeast 3 cups bread flour 1/4 cup nonfat dry milk 1 tablespoon soft butter 1 teaspoon salt 2 tablespoons sugar 1 1/4 cups warm water 1 1/2 cups grated sharp cheddar cheese 1. Place ingredients, in the order listed, into the pan. Select white bread, and press "Start". NOTES: Unless otherwise noted all ingredients should be at room temperature. This can be mixed on dough setting of the bread machine. After Second kneading, remove dough from machine, divide into to equal portions and place in small loaf pans. Cover and let rise to double, about 45 min to 1 hour. Bake at 350 f. for 35-40 min. Since this makes 2 loaves, you can instead make a few sandwich buns instead. Cut dough in half, and make one into a loaf. With the other half, cut into medium/small pieces and roll into a rope ~ tie the rope into a knot with one end sticking up partially through the hole, the other end not. Place on a cookie sheet and let proof about 10 minutes or so. Spread with egg wash and sprinkle with sesame or poppy seeds. Bake about 25 minutes or until golden. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n059.18 --------------- From: "J. Mathew" Subject: bread that doesn't crumble Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 09:40:29 -0500 > >I'd like a machine recipe for wheat bread that won't crumble when you > >make a sandwich with it. The one I have works okay the first day, but > >then it's oy but that nly good for croutons! I missed the original post on this, but I thought that perhaps I could offer a few thoughts on the subject. I should point out that I do not have a bread machine, but make all my own bread either entirely by hand or with the assistance of my KitchenAid or Cuisinart. That being said, I can think of 2 things that (based on my experiences) tend to cause crumbly bread: 1) too much flour has been used, causing a dry loaf 2) the dough has not been kneaded thoroughly and/or properly, and the gluten has not been developed sufficiently. Unfortunately, I have no idea how the latter problem could be remedied in a bread machine since I don't know how they're set up to work; however, the first can generally be remedied to some degree by using a recipe that one knows to be reliable under most circumstances. I've found that some recipes tend to be waaay out of kilter (I tried one yesterday from a brand-new bread book and found it to be completely unacceptable). I would normally offer you some of the many bread recipes on my Web page, except they're not converted for bread machine use. Perhaps other list members can help with this issue, but my observations of many bread machine recipes posted seems to indicate that they often take about 3 to 3-1/4 cups of flour and about 1 to 1-1/4 cups of liquid. If I'm right, then it appears that most bread recipes could be converted to a bread machine fairly easily. It also appears that the machines use approximately 1 packet of bread machine yeast (based on my previous phone call to Fleischmann's, this is apparently the same product as rapid-rise instant yeast), which is a quantity of 2-1/4 tsp. If anyone has any Web sites that have conversion information like this (standard to bread machine) or further comments I would be interested in finding out. This has always been a subject of interest to me since we have such a varied membership here on the list and elsewhere in the bread-making world. Hope my comments regarding the crumbly bread help a little. As I said, I don't have a bread machine so I don't know if you can really control some things like the method or kneading time. Joan -- Reply via email to joanm@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~joanm Deja News: http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n059.19 --------------- From: "Mega-bytes" Subject: Sweet Potato Rolls Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 08:32:43 -0400 Don't These sound yummy? Martha * Exported from MasterCook * Sweet Potato Rolls Recipe By : Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 1/2 pound sweet potatoes -- peeled, quartered 2 envelopes fast-rising yeast 1/4 cup sugar 1 1/2 cup (3 sticks) unsalted butter -- melted 1 cup honey 1/4 cup vegetable oil 2 eggs -- beaten to blend 2 teaspoons salt 3 cups all purpose flour 4 cups (about) whole wheat flour 4 cups graham cracker crumbs Cook potatoes in large saucepan of simmering water until tender, about 20 minutes. Drain, reserving 1 cup cooking liquid. Place potatoes in medium bowl. Transfer reserved cooking liquid to large bowl; cool to 120°F. to 130°F. Sprinkle yeast and sugar over reserved warm liquid; stir to dissolve. Let yeast mixture stand until foamy, about 5 minutes. Combine potatoes, 1/2 cup melted butter, 1/2 cup honey, oil, eggs and salt in processor. Blend until smooth. Add to yeast mixture. Mix in all purpose flour. Gradually stir in enough whole wheat flour 1/2 cup at a time to form soft, slightly sticky dough. Turn dough out onto lightly floured surface and knead until smooth and elastic, adding more whole wheat flour if sticky. Lightly oil large bowl. Add dough, turning to coat entire surface. Cover bowl with kitchen towel. Let dough rise in warm draft-free area until doubled in volume, about 30 minutes. Preheat oven to 400°F. Grease three 9-inch-diameter cake pans. Punch dough down. Turn dough out onto lightly floured surface and knead until smooth. Divide dough into thirds. Cut each third into 12 pieces. Roll each piece into ball. Mix remaining 1 cup melted butter and 1/2 cup honey until well blended. Dip each dough ball into honey mixture and then roll in graham cracker crumbs to coat. Place 12 balls in each prepared pan, arranging close together. Let stand 10 minutes. Bake until golden brown, about 25 minutes. (Rolls can be prepared ahead. Cool completely. Wrap tightly and refrigerate 1 day or freeze up to 1 month. Reheat rolls before serving.) Serve warm. Makes 3 dozen Bon Appétit October 1991 Anne White: Orlando, Florida MC formatted by Martha Hicks and Buster - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n059.20 --------------- From: "J. Mathew" Subject: crumbly bread / sponge method Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 09:54:36 -0500 > It is at this point that I need some advice/confirmation. Most > cookery > books have this second rising as 3/4 to 1 hour. I recon that with all this > time spent beforehand that about 25 mins is enough This is something that is based on many factors, including amount of yeast used, temperature, humidity, type of yeast used, ingredients in recipe (some denser breads take longer to rise), whether you are using a sponge or sourdough recipe/method, and so on. On a good day maybe the dough will take 45-60 minutes, but that's only a "guesstimate"! I tend to look upon time estimates in recipe books as suggestions based on the author's experiences. There are times when it takes a much longer or shorter time in my own kitchen. I never go by the time elapsed, but rather judge the dough itself and whether it has doubled and passes the "finger punch" test. >however I often seem to > get an air hole underneath the crust and can't work out whether it is to > do with cooking temperatures or whether, after a long rising process, this > 25mins is far too long. Any help appreciated. If I understand you correctly, then I think this air hole is due to improper formation of the loaf rather than rising time, etc. When you're punching down the dough and shaping the loaf it is important to try and work out any of the little air bubbles that developed during rising. During the shaping of the loaf you have to be careful to pinch out any air pockets and roll things tightly, etc. This is something that is difficult to do sometimes, and in my experience the only way to get it right is to practice, practice, practice! Your bread will still taste good even if it is not "aestheticaly pleasing" with that air hole! ;) One other thing occurs to me regarding this "air hole" problem, too. It may be that the loaf is rising for too long a period *after* shaping, just before it goes in the oven. If this is the case, then there are little air pockets/bubbles developing in the dough and these get larger the longer it rises. If you don't let the loaf sit quite so long before it goes in the oven sometimes this problem can be eliminated or minimized. > 8/ I start cooking in a hot oven (about 210 C Fan Oven) with water in a > pan in the bottom. When bread is in the oven is turned down by about 20 > C. That's about it. Adding mist or steam to the oven cavity during baking will cause the crust to be quite crispy, such as the type of crust desired when baking French baguettes or batards. There are, of course, other types of breads which use this method as well. I have a bunch of bread recipes on my Web page (http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/8098/recipes.html), including some information (and recipes) using the sponge method (one of my favorites due to the texture and flavor it imparts, especially using sourdough starter). I hope some of these suggestions help a bit, Joan -- Reply via email to joanm@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~joanm Deja News: http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet --------------- END bread-bakers.v098.n059 --------------- -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v098.n060 -------------- 001 - jlee@cccp.net (John Lee) - Flour --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v098.n060.1 --------------- From: jlee@cccp.net (John Lee) Subject: Flour Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:33:24 +0100 re... >>From: jlee@cccp.net (John Lee) >>A supermarket chain here in Britain has finally brought us bread machines at >>sensible prices (69.99 UK pounds, about half price) so I bought one and have >>been making bread like crazy for the past week. However, like most things in >>this country, strong bread flour is expensive - about 79 pence for 1.5 kgs >>against just 12 pence for supermarket's own low price brands of all purpose >>plain white flour. Unfortunately the supermarkets do not sell an equally >>cheap strong bread flour. >Hello John, >I'm in the UK too and I don't think there's too many of us on this list ? >Unless it is a necessity of circumstance then I would forget about cheap >flour. Why is it so cheap, unless it is a total loss leader? I think that >if you're going to the effort of baking your own bread then it's worth >using the best that you can afford. Many areas have small local mills >producing a individual quality product and experimenting can be fun, as >well as supporting these small businesses. Failing that I find larger >producers such as Doves Farm flours very good. Personally I try different >flours from my local health food shop and am prepared to pay about £1.10 >for a 1.5kg bag - but then I haven't spent £69.99 on a bread machine :-) >...........only joking. > All the best, > Vernon Webster Hi Vernon I have gone around all the local UK supermarkets and have come up with the result that the best of the cheap supermarket flours is Safeways at just 12 pence for 1.5 kgs which has a surprisingly high protein level of 10.2% - which very surprisingly is better than some other full-price manufacturers' so-called Strong White Flour. Of course, this is nothing like the levels enjoyed by our fellow bakers on the other side of the Atlantic who can get Canadian wheats, but its not bad for the UK. I am sure that you are right in saying that the very best results might come from local mills but at £ 1.10 a bag compared with just 12p I reckon its worth experimenting with the cheaper version - you never know I might end up with really good bread. As you rightly say, experimenting can be fun - especially if you can save 'big bucks' )-: John ===================== John Lee (UK) e-mail jlee@cccp.net ===================== --------------- END bread-bakers.v098.n060 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2000 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved