Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 07:33:06 GMT -------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v112.n004 -------------- 001 - Marlene - RE: Mastercook software 004 - dmrogers218@comcast.net - Re: romertopf 005 - "Earl" - Re: Baking bread in a Romertopf 013 - "Don Bischoff" Subject: Bread question Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 13:09:37 -0500 (EST) Hi, My question is now that I live in AZ and it is so dry here my bread doesn't turn out like it use to in Illinois. How do I get around this issue with my breadmaker and get back to making decent loaf of bread? Thank you in advance I sure do appreciate it. Marlene --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v112.n004.2 --------------- From: Suzanne Lander Subject: Re: Recipe Software Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 04:29:29 -0600 I haven't found any recipe software I like, either. I'll be watching for what you guys have to say. I love the gmail solution! Another option for portability is something like Dropbox. I've been either printing recipes to pdf files with Cute pdf or saving them as text files and keeping them in a recipe folder on my Dropbox account for easy mobile access. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v112.n004.3 --------------- From: Lobo Subject: RE: Mastercook software Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 07:38:03 -0700 All my recipes are in Word. You could use Pages on your Mac. I have a "food" directory containing file categories such as bread, desserts, main dishes, etc. and insert new recipes regularly, alphabetically. I have a separate directory for untried recipes and occasionally search it for something I vaguely recall saving.) I print out each new recipe as soon as I have typed it and keep them in a 3 ring binder in the kitchen. This is perhaps not as convenient as software written strictly for recipes, but at least it probably isn't going away. An option amenable to sharing would be to save these files as .txt files which can be used by just about every word processing program that exists. The GMail account for just recipes is a great idea too. I don't think Google will go away, but then again ... who ever knows? At least in Word, I have the recipes on my own computer and backup. I do keep the recipes I share via email (which tend to be the best ones) in my GMail account and so that serves as a backup too. Lois --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v112.n004.4 --------------- From: dmrogers218@comcast.net Subject: Re: romertopf Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 14:52:24 +0000 (UTC) I found this website with some instructions and some recipes. The bread recipe says to grease the pan. I don't think you did? http://fantes.com/romertopf.html deb in Georgia --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v112.n004.5 --------------- From: "Earl" Subject: RE: Baking bread in a Romertopf Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 10:12:20 -0500 Diane, I mostly bake in a Brottopf and Romertopf, both with lids. At times, if I want a round loaf, I use a round casserole dish lined with parchment paper sprayed with oil letting dough rise in the dish. The bread always easily peels away from the parchment paper. Starting with cold oven. Sometimes with shaped dough straight from the refrigerator after overnight proofing for more sour tasting bread. Twenty minutes with lid on during initial bake then lid off to brown bread. I use a non-stick oil spray as I shape the dough, and on the dishes' top and bottom. Any kind should do but I use an oil spray I buy from GFS [Gordon Food Service]. With my fast rising homemade sourdough starter using a bread machine dough cycle to make the dough, I can bake bread in the oven in 3 to 4 hours: Time of start to finish depends on which additives I use. Link to my bread pictures: http://www.feldoncentral.com/garden/photos/v/memberphotos/earl/ --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v112.n004.6 --------------- From: Ellen Lee Subject: Romertopf pan Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 10:59:42 -0500 Romertopf has a web site: www.romertopfonline.com. There is a "contact us" link at the bottom of the page. I have two of the pans and love them for roasting chicken and making vegetable concoctions, but I have not used them for baking bread. Williams-Sonoma is a major seller of the pans. You should be able to get a response from that, too. Good luck! --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v112.n004.7 --------------- From: Claire Kranz Banasiak Subject: recipe software Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 08:46:20 -0800 (PST) I just bought Cook'n for Mac. I am so far happy and impressed as to how it works. Have to type in all my old recipes but it is not too arduous. As for new stuff off the web it has a capture button, which works well. Cost is $79.95 more info at dvo.com It will also sync with an iphone, android or ipad. Claire --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v112.n004.8 --------------- From: "Gwen Brass" Subject: Baking bread in a Romertopf Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 10:02:39 -0800 I grease mine. And I assume you ran a knife or spatula around the edges to try and loosen it? --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v112.n004.9 --------------- From: Deborah605@aol.com Subject: Loaves sticking in Romertopf Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 13:50:33 -0500 (EST) Diane, we've been using our Romertopfs since we bought them while living in Europe, some 30 years ago. The only time we have a problem with breads sticking is with sourdoughs. One solution is to put down a small piece of parchment paper on the bottom of the baker and up the long sides; when done, the ends of the bread loosen from the baker, and the parchment keeps the bottom from sticking. After using it for awhile, there shouldn't be a real problem with sticking, as a patina will develop that makes the surface non-stick. One more thing, if the baker develops an odor that you don't like, a heavy bristled brush and some baking soda will take care of it. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v112.n004.10 --------------- From: "Sonia Martinez" Subject: Baking bread in a Romertopf Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 09:15:25 -1000 Here is what I found when googling the subject. I have a clay baker (not Romertopf) and the inside of the bottom portion is glazed. I might try baking bread in it w/o the oiling and see what happens. One Perfect Loaf 1 cup warm water (105-115 F) 1 package active dry yeast 1 teaspoon sugar 3/4 tablespoon salt 1 tablespoon vegetable oil 3 cups (approx.) all purpose flour Baking bread in a wet clay cooker results in a crisp shiny crust you may have thought possible only in a baker's brick oven. Place warm water in a large mixer bowl and sprinkle with yeast. Let stand until softened, about 3 minutes. Stir in sugar, salt and oil. Add 2 cups of the flour. Mix until blended; beat on medium speed until dough is elastic and pulls away from bowl, about 5 minutes. Stir in 1/2 cup of the flour to make soft dough. Turn dough onto floured surface. Knead, adding flour as needed, until dough is smooth and springy and small bubbles form just under the surface, 15 to 20 minutes. Place dough in greased bowl; turn greased side up. Let stand covered in warm place until doubled, about 1 hour. Soak Romertopf bottom of loaf shaped, 5-1/2 cup clay cooker in water about 15 minutes. When dough has doubled, drain bottom of cooker pat dry. Grease sides and bottom generously. Punch dough; shape into loaf and place in cooker. Let stand, covered with waxed paper, in warm place until dough nearly reaches top of cooker, 30 to 45 minutes. Cut diagonal slashes, 1/2 inch deep, in top of dough with razor blade or sharp knife. Soak top of cooker in water about 15 minutes; drain; pat dry and grease. Place covered cooker in cold oven. Set oven at 475 F. Bake 45 minutes. Remove cover, bake until top is brown, 3 to 5 minutes. Remove from cooker and cool on wire rack. The above recipes are from Clay Cookery by the editors of Consumer Guide Sonia R. Martinez Cookbook author and freelance food writer --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v112.n004.11 --------------- From: JD Miller Subject: Baking bread in a Romertopf Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 15:16:37 -0500 (EST) I just picked up abook at my favorite bookstore: _The Claypot Cookbook_ by Georgia MacLeod Sales and Grover Sales. I haven't spent any time with it other than to note the wet clay will add some steam to the baking bread. JD Miller a humble pawnbroker in Tumwater Wa www.checkpointpawn.com http://www.concertsinyourhome.com/event-jmiller20121007.html --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v112.n004.12 --------------- From: Me Subject: Re: Baking bread in a Romertopf Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 12:42:01 -0800 On Jan 21, 2012, at 6:59 AM, DDJ0195 wrote: >Baking bread in a Rompertopf requires the lid. It is what holds the >steam inside. They recommend soaking a Romertopf pan and the lid for >15 minutes before use. > >Give this web page a try for the "How To". >http://www.livestrong.com/article/433424-how-to-bake-bread-in-romertopf-clay-pots/ > >best, Deborah --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v112.n004.13 --------------- From: "Don Bischoff" Subject: RE: Baking bread in a Romertopf Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 15:52:42 -0600 Hi Diane, Congratulations on your inheritance of a Romertopf clay baker. I hope you inherited the lid as well because that's a vital part of the process. I have long been a big fan of clay pot baking and have a whole assortment of clay bakers in different sizes and shapes including two Romertopf clay loaf pans. Since I have two Romertopfs I also have two instruction booklets which are, in fact, no more than a large sheet of printed instructions for care, usage and some recipes. I don't really need two sets, so I'd be more than happy to let you have one. As to your sticking problem, that's easily remedied. You need to generously grease the pot before placing the loaf into it. I use Crisco. It's also a good idea to grease the lid just in case the bread gets too much oven spring and touches it. The bread will stick to the lid. I found out the hard way. Below is the bread recipe provided by Romertopf. I've simplified the instructions from their overly verbose version but the ingredient list remains the same. I think you'll be able to figure it out ok, but if not, feel free to ask questions. I also have the recipe doubled for two loaves with the ingredient list in metric form in case you're into weighing rather than rather than volumetric measurements. If you're interested in that recipe, let me know and I'll email you a copy. Also, let me know if you're interested in the instruction sheet. Happy Clay Baking Brett Baker * Exported from MasterCook * Romertopf Bread - 1 loaf Recipe By :Romertopf Serving Size : 2 Preparation Time :0:00 Categories : Breads: Yeast Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method -------- ------------ -------------------------------- 1 cup warm water -- 110 degrees F 2 1/4 teaspoons yeast (1 package) 1 teaspoon sugar 1 teaspoon salt 1 tablespoon veg oil 3 cups all-purpose flour Soak top and bottom of clay baker about 15 minutes. I do at least an hour. Mix and knead dough. Put in bowl, cover with saran and ferment until double. Punch down and form into loaf. Put in generously greased clay baker bottom. Allow to rise until the dough is about an inch or so above the rim of the pot. Slash top of loaf, put top on clay baker and place in a cold oven. Turn on oven and set to 475 F. Allow to bake with top on for 35 minutes. Remove cover and continue baking with top off until loaf is properly browned. Remove from baker and cool on wire rack. Note: To crisp up frozen loaf, remove loaf from freezer and defrost. Preheat oven to 400 F. Place loaf directly on the middle oven rack and turn off the heat. Allow to remain in oven for 10 minutes then remove and slice. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - = Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 704 Calories; 2g Fat (2.7% calories from fat); 21g Protein; 147g Carbohydrate; 6g Dietary Fiber; 0mg Cholesterol; 1075mg Sodium. Exchanges: 9 1/2 Grain(Starch); 0 Lean Meat; 0 Other Carbohydrates. --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v112.n004.14 --------------- From: raymond licata Subject: Re: sticking bread Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 16:49:00 -0800 (PST) Would a non stick aluminum foil liner, or parchment paper help to extract your loaf? RL --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v112.n004.15 --------------- From: Nancy Lee Subject: non dairy breads Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 21:45:24 -0500 I have a friend that is vegan. I would appreciate any recipes that do not include dairy or animal products. Thanks. Nancy --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v112.n004.16 --------------- From: Donna Marie Subject: RE: Mastercook software Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 11:49:04 -0500 I received a tip from Sue Lynn about MacGourmet and am happy to report that after a monumental struggle with OS9 and ancient versions of my recipe file, I have imported it into MacGourmet, which seems to do everything I need it to do, including creating a web site which I have on my server for when I am away from home and my own hard drive. Thanks! Donna Marie --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v112.n004.17 --------------- From: Mike Avery Subject: Re: Home Ground Flour Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:08:22 -0600 On 1/9/2012 9:25 AM, Julie Boylan >I have a new grain mill and I have wheat berries - the white stuff, >not the hard red stuff. The freshly ground flour looks and feels >great but I have had two failures using it in a bread recipe that I >have successfully used with commercial flour. The recipe is for 100% >whole wheat flour. (Link to recipe available if interested.) > >After 10 minutes of kneading in the mixer with the dough hook, the >dough is craggy looking. I can pull it apart easily. It is not >elastic at all. So I added vital wheat gluten and some whole wheat >bread enhancer that has (among other things) more gluten and >ascorbic acid. For two large loaves I added 2 tablespoons of the >enhancer and between 1/4 and 1/3 cup of the VWG. After another 10 >minutes the dough was much more elastic but not enough >apparently.The crumb looks more like a biscuit than a nice bread. When we were doing the research that led to opening a bakery we talked to the owner of a "Great Harvest" franchise. He commented that the worst problem he had was grinding flour. It was a bigger issue than turnover. And part of the problem was getting a good wheat to grind. If all you care about is quality, it's hard enough because the big milling companies have contracts in place that tie up much of the harvest. If you also want it to be organic, you're asking for more trouble. And, if you're grinding your own, you should hold out for organic grain. There are lots of unknowns in your question. I have no idea how experienced a baker you are. If you've played with whole grains before. And if the recipe is any good. So, let's start with the recipe. Have you made that recipe with store bought whole wheat? If not, you don't know if the recipe is good. I'd start there. Make the bread with store bought whole wheat. If it doesn't work well, you may have found the source of your problems. Make sure you feel the dough, because if the recipe worked, that is what you want your dough to feel like. Whole grain flours absorb more moisture than refined flours. However, they do it more slowly. So, for the first part of your kneading, you have a dough that is far too wet. The tendency of beginners is to add more flour. When the flour starts absorbing water, your dough gets too dry. And that causes more issues. So, start with the recipe as given. If it is too dry, add some water. If it is too wet, do nothing. Knead for about 5 minutes, then let the dough rest for 5 minutes with the mixer off. This gives the flour time to absorb moisture. Then adjust the flour and water ratio, if needed, as you knead for another 5 minutes. That is usually enough kneading. The next issue is the grain. Where did you get it? Was it a strain of wheat intended for bread making? If not, look around for some that was. A number of organic mills sell unground, but cleaned, grain for home milling. Your local health food store can probably get some for you. Personally, I am not a fan of white wheat. It has more protein than red wheat, but it doesn't handle as well and the breads are really pretty bland. VERY IMPORTANT - don't get feed grain, it is very low quality and dirty! The next issue is the mill. Most people cheap out and get a micronizer mill. They really don't make great flour. They overheat it. That is why so many recipes from people who sell those mills include milk powder and eggs. They are trying to fortify the dough so it will handle and bake well. You're making cake, not bread. You can make good bread with flour from a micronizer, but its easier if you use a mill with stones. I have a good recipe on my web site for a 100% whole wheat sourdough bread. (http://www.sourdoughhome.com/100percentwholewheat.html) It has gotten a good bit of praise. It works with home ground flour. The next issue is the difference between home ground and store bought flour. The flour mills ensure the moisture content of the grain is right before they mill it. As a result, their flours are fairly consistent. You are almost certainly using the grain as it comes out of your sack or bucket. So, you have a very variable moisture level in your flour. You will probably need to adjust the moisture level in your dough so your flour can make a good bread. If the recipe worked with store bought flour you need to adjust the liquids in the recipe until the dough feels like the batch made with the store bought flour. Wait until the second kneading to do this. Remember, the goal is not to grind the flour as finely as you can, it is to make good bread. With most grinders, you should use a medium setting. This also reduces overheating. I hope you'll tell us how things work out, Mike *Bake With Mike * A Randomly Selected Food Saying Of The Day: "The only time to eat diet food is while you're waiting for the steak to cook" -Julia Child --------------- END bread-bakers.v112.n004 --------------- Copyright (c) 1996-2012 Regina Dwork and Jeffrey Dwork All Rights Reserved